Toda B Vs Toda C

**Mashimaro** · 29-06-2006 03:42 PM

If i've already got toda C's on my dc2r with valvetrains done but no port polish no modified manifold would i better off replacing it with toda Bs? Or would C's still put out sufficent power but wont be used to its full potential? After dyno tuning?

I didnt get the figures i wanted after dyno tuning my car and also not happy with the way it was tuned. So would i be better off just leaving it and getting car retuned it or would it be more benifical gettin Stage 2 cams which doesnt really need any extras and then getting it dyno tuned?

Biggest issue here is getting what i can with little money. I'm no longer working and a student and it takes helllllllllllll of a long time to save up this far. Hence i ask am i better of just re-tuning it saving me money on new cams and labour but there would be no point of the C's aint beneficial in this case.

**jimmeh** · 29-06-2006 06:46 PM

reference:http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=537

Integra VTIR
Int-230 dur. / 10.6mm lift
Exh-227 dur. / 9.4mm lift

Civic VTIR '99 Spec
Int-240 dur. / 10.7mm lift
Exh-227 dur. / 9.4mm lift

Integra Type-R Pre '99 Spec
Int-240 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift

Civic Type-R And Integra Type-R
Int-243 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift

Rocket Motorsports M21
IntakeLift 11.7mm / Duration 236
ExhaustLift 11.6mm / Duration 226

Rocket Motorsports M22
Intake Lift 12mm / Duration 236
Exhaust Lift 12mm / Duration 226

Rocket Motorsports M24
Intake Lift 12.9mm / Duration 262
Exhaust Lift 12mm / Duration 270

Spoon Sports
Int-256 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-245 dur. / 11.1mm lift

Toda Spec A
Int-250 dur. / 11.6mm lift
Exh-240 dur. / 11.2mm lift

Toda Spec B
Int-255 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-245 dur. / 12.0mm lift

Toda Spec C
Int-255 dur. / 12.5mm lift
Exh-255 dur. / 12.5mm lift

Toda Spec D (Estimated)
Int-265 dur. / 12.9mm lift
Exh-275 dur. / 11.9mm lift

Toda VTEC Killer
Int-265 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-255 dur. / 11.5mm lift

JUN Type 1
Int-265 dur. / 10.9mm lift
Exh-268 dur. / 10.0mm lift

JUN Type 2
Int-267 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-265 dur. / 10.9mm lift

JUN Type 3
Int-265 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-265 dur. / 11.5mm lift

Skunk2 Stage 1
Int-252 dur. / 11.6mm lift
Exh-249 dur. / 10.8mm lift

Skunk2 Stage 2
Int-266 dur. / 12.3mm lift
Exh-262 dur. / 11.8mm lift

Skunk2 Stage 3
Int-270 dur. / 12.8mm lift
Exh-279 dur. / 11.8mm lift

Skunk2 Turbo (specs seem low? I called them, the VTEC now has less overlap, great for turbo

)
Int-230 dur. / 9.7mm lift
Exh-225 dur. / 8.9mm lift

Crane Stage 1
Int-243 dur. / 11.6mm lift
Exh-237 dur. / 10.8mm lift

Crane Stage 2
Int-248 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-242 dur. / 11.6mm lift

Crane Stage 3
Int-254 dur. / 12.4mm lift
Exh-248 dur. / 12.0mm lift

Crower 400 (not converted yet)
Int- dur. / 10.7mm lift
Exh- dur. / 9.6mm lift

Crower 401 (not converted yet)
Int- dur. / 11.3mm lift
Exh- dur. / 10.5mm lift

Crower 401T (not converted yet)
Int- dur. / 11.8mm lift
Exh- dur. / 11.3mm lift

Crower 402A
Int-232 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Exh-228 dur. / 11.8mm lift

Crower 402
Int-237 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Exh-228 dur. / 11.8mm lift

Crower 403
Int-246 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-238 dur. / 11.8mm lift

Crower 411T
Int-242 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Exh-238 dur. / 11.3mm lift

Crower 412
Int-260 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Exh-252 dur. / 11.8mm lift

Crower 413
Int-269 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-258 dur. / 11.8mm lift

**panda[cRx]** · 29-06-2006 07:25 PM

i don't think the specs mean much to mashi.... or the majority of ppl on ozhonda for that matter. your post did not answer a single one of his questions

that's like throwing a 4 year old an encyclopdia and telling them to read.
anyone can read specs but understanding what they mean is another thing.

(i don't mean to be a c*nt jimmeh but i'm sure u get what i mean?

)

**kyle** · 29-06-2006 07:42 PM

To my knowledge Toda C (And other Stage 3) camshafts, because of there high lift and duriation need quite a high Compression ratio to make power. But your car being a type R I would think would already have a high compression ratio, but perhaps something around the area of 12 - 12.5:1 is needed.

Perhaps try refining some searches around this topic may bring some results.

- Kyle

**kyle** · 29-06-2006 07:50 PM

QUOTE http://www.modacar.com

"Toda Racing offers high compression forged pistons for the Honda B series DOHC VTEC engines. The kit comes complete with forged pistons, rings, clips, and heavy duty wrist pins. Offers great gains when combined with Spec B and Spec C camshafts. Toda pistons maintain the Honda factory piston to wall clearance and allow for quiet and reliable operation."

**pwr2w8** · 30-06-2006 12:41 PM

You definately need high comp pistons and i don't think your pistons are above 12.5:1 anything lower than this your wasting your time with toda c.

**Jomsy** · 30-06-2006 03:26 PM

why dont you go straight to the source and ring or PM adrien at toda

**Weq** · 01-07-2006 03:03 PM

u need above 12.5:1 comp to take any advanatge from these cam's. That or a turbo :P ALso u need to rev higher.

to panda: this guy hasnt learnt a thing and now has wasted his money a shitty combination of parts and is blaming everyone else. If he had a little more theory in his repatour, he WOULD not have made the mistake. Jimmeh answered things perfectly.

**Mashimaro** · 01-07-2006 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Weq

u need above 12.5:1 comp to take any advanatge from these cam's. That or a turbo :P ALso u need to rev higher.

to panda: this guy hasnt learnt a thing and now has wasted his money a shitty combination of parts and is blaming everyone else. If he had a little more theory in his repatour, he WOULD not have made the mistake. Jimmeh answered things perfectly.

Have I stated once I blamed anyone else? No. Have i said I paid for the cams? What it was already there when i purchased my car? And obviously I don't know the theory behind hence i asked for a bit of advice which you answered and many others so i can fix the problem.

You really need to check the facts before attacking others. My knowledge aint that great hence I'm asking for a bit of advice.

**Weq** · 01-07-2006 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Mashimaro

Have I stated once I blamed anyone else? No. Have i said I paid for the cams? What it was already there when i purchased my car? And obviously I don't know the theory behind hence i asked for a bit of advice which you answered and many others so i can fix the problem.

You really need to check the facts before attacking others. My knowledge aint that great hence I'm asking for a bit of advice.

You blamed the tuner. Dont make me quote u. U have no idea, yet u had the nerv to criticise a someone who knows how to operate and tune a PowerFC/Dyno.

A little bit of advice, think before u post, idiot. Idiots cant build FAST NA honda's. This has been demonstrated thousands of times over by Ozhonda members. *sigh*

**Mashimaro** · 01-07-2006 05:00 PM

I didn't blame the tuner for the internals i blamed the tuner for the unfortunate tuning. My car does not even rev past 7.2rpms because it chokes and dropps out. It doesnt even hit vtec any more as vtec is set at 7.4 and as stated car dropps out at 7.2rpm. My car wasnt doing this prior to tuning. Once again i will admit the my limited knowledge but its pretty obvious its the tuners fault for the car to choke out. And i've had a second and third opinon from other tuners that the first tuner boged my tuning. I wouldnt make such a claim if i didnt get a second opinon or in this case third opinon.

I admit I did blame the tuner for lack of power but I do take that back since i've found out the combination was wrong but he still stuffed up the tuning. The driveablity of my car is now screwed. I also found out my car is one of many that his stuffed up. I do kick myself for not doing further research at the time but gotta live with that one.

Can i aslo ask another noob quetion or am i gonna get attacked by you again? For those that can asnwer this question do i need to further change fuel pumps, injectors if i replace cams wiht toda b or can i get away with stock parts?