Toda B Vs Toda C

[Weq]

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Can i aslo ask another noob quetion or am i gonna get attacked by you again? For those that can asnwer this question do i need to further change fuel pumps, injectors if i replace cams wiht toda b or can i get away with stock parts?

I was not attacking you for asking a question. I attacked Panda for such a stupid and childish comment. You would think the mods would have learnt. I then rebutted your retaliation.

As for your stock fuel system copeing with your goal, i would ask the tuner for his recommendation. What is ur current peak injector duty cycle (can be found on the PFC hand controller) If you can infact make more power i would probably think an adjustable FPR or slightly larger injectors are in order. HP = more fueling requirements. NA hp requires less fuel then turbo HP to maintain a safe A/F ratio.

[spoondc2]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16739

Hope this helps, i am doing research on Toda cams also
Seems like even Toda B need higher compression to work well regarding to info on honda-tech

[TODA AU]

you're stock fuel system will cope fine

That's not entirley true...
You should have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator & an increased flow / capacity fuel pump.

Mashimaro, even with low (stock) compression your car should still make more power than stock. Further it should be smooth & torquey.
If you're having issues it is probable that the cam timing is out.

[panda[cRx]]

I was not attacking you for asking a question. I attacked Panda for such a stupid and childish comment. You would think the mods would have learnt.

childish comment? errrr ok. i was merely stating that i'm sure most forum users would prefer to be educated on the topic rather than be fed a list of figures that mean nothing to them. instead of flaming everyone that doesnt have the same knowledge base as you how about trying to help the situation?

and there u were implying he was an 'idiot' for buying toda C's when in fact they were already on the car when he bought em

and fyi i resigned moderating some time ago, i'm just waiting for a replacement lol

[spoondc2]

That's not entirley true...
You should have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator & an increased flow / capacity fule pump.

Mashimaro, even with low (stock) compression your car should still make more power than stock. Further it should be smooth & torquey.
If you're having issues it is probable that the cam timing is out.

Just wondering for Toda B do i need adjustable fuel pressure regulator and larger fuel pump? Also need to adjust the cam timing with cam installation or leave it to the dyno tuner?

[TODA AU]

Just wondering for Toda B do i need adjustable fuel pressure regulator and larger fuel pump? Also need to adjust the cam timing with cam installation or leave it to the dyno tuner?

For best output you should fit a larger pump & adjustable reg.
When the cams are timed corectly, you'll max out the std injectors without an increase in fuel pressure & flow.
This applies to Spec B's as much as it does Spec C's.

Regarding cam intallation / timing.
If you fit them per the cam card & have a LCA of 102.5deg (Spec B) or 105deg (Spec C) this is a good starting point depending on combination.
Moreover, it's probably correct & won't need to be touched on the dyno if you're using all TODA parts.
That said, many times I've had to re-time suposedly correctly timed camshafts.
If you've got a TDC guage & a dial indicator, check that you're acheiving 1mm of valve lift @ TDC on both inlet & exhaust on the low cam.
Anticlockwise engine rotation must be observed as reverse operation will give a fasle reading due to slack on the tensioner side.
Hope that helps.

Adrian

[Mashimaro]

In the end i don't think i got my answer.

Question: will it be benifical for me to run toda C with stock bottom end and getting retune or better of changing toda B then re tune. Keep in mind Toda C is already in my car.

(i was mislead by bigger is better and in this case bigger might not be better.

[TODA AU]

In the end i don't think i got my answer.

Question: will it be benifical for me to run toda C with stock bottom end and getting retune or better of changing toda B then re tune. Keep in mind Toda C is already in my car.

(i was mislead by bigger is better and in this case bigger might not be better.

B18C's generally to make better power through the rev range using a Spec B camshaft over a Spec C camshaft when the compression ration is near std.
(Due to longer stroke, higher piston speed. 102.5 LCA is more suitable)
In a nut shell, if you can swap your cams with someone, you'll get a better spread of power, but not nessesarily higher peak power.
Bare in mind, you should still have good power with the Spec C camshafts.
Both Spec B & Spec C camshafts share the same low cam.
If you have low power output, poor driveability or other issues detracting from the car's performance, It is likley you also have tuning issues.

Cam timing is critical to making best power & achieving good driveability.
Hit and miss cam adjustments on the dyno are not recomeneded for these camshafts. They should be installed per cam card.

[locote]

just 1 question..
I have a SiR-G B18c in my civic im not realy sure of the compresion ratio of it, but would it be high enough to make more power through out the rev range with the Cs or Bs would a better choice..
Other mods would include Skunk2 pro manifold, TODA header, 2.5inch MBent zorst, Power FC tune.
An honest answer would be appreciated..

[TODA AU]

just 1 question..
I have a SiR-G B18c in my civic im not realy sure of the compresion ratio of it, but would it be high enough to make more power through out the rev range with the Cs or Bs would a better choice..
Other mods would include Skunk2 pro manifold, TODA header, 2.5inch MBent zorst, Power FC tune.
An honest answer would be appreciated..

For B18C maintaining the std bottom end, the Spec B camshafts is a better choice over Spec C's.

[todaek9]

for a TODA C to work, compression must be considered...above 12:1 at least. there is too much hassle if you are going for TODA C if you don't have a high budget.

and also, what kinda power are you expecting, mind telling????

i'd only got 132kw @ wheel on Optimax, and 145kw @ wheel with race fuel (ELF) on my previous car at 12.8:1 comp., and that my friend, is dissapointing...Plus, i've change everything + head work + 40hr on Dyno..

if you are expecting alot from just std bottom by using TODA C with least mods and no work done to the head, may be you should consider TODA B as a better alternative, or JUN Stage 3, or Spoon cams.

[TODA AU]

i'd only got 132kw @ wheel on Optimax, and 145kw @ wheel with race fuel (ELF) on my previous car at 12.8:1 comp., and that my friend, is dissapointing...Plus, i've change everything + head work + 40hr on Dyno..

Yours is not a good example of what is usual