Engine wont fire up!! - B16A in a concerto!

[XB-16-AX]

Car: OBD0 concerto PGM-FI
Engine: JDM B16A OBD1 - P30 ECU, engine to ecu loom in use.

Ok i wired up everything ... but she didnt start and didnt even crank, fuel supply is ok and main relays are working for the first try..

then i check the wires coming from the engine to the ECU and they all seem to be in the correct places.

Then i looked in the engine bay and noticed that there are 3 plugs.

1st plug is the injector resistor plug which has a cover on it. which i didnt need to hook up. <-- this is ok!

2nd plug has lots of pins in it and is not pluged in to anything
-does anyone know if this plug is actually required to enable for the car to start and run???

(see pic below, this pic was taken from my mates B18C which has the same plugs as a sample)



3rd plug is a 2 wire plug which has a fat black/yellow and black/white.
(see pic below, taken from my mates B18C as a sample)

-i checked out the starter motor and the round crimp is connected to the starter with a 10mm bolt and then the wire leads to the + of the engine fuse box. <-- this wire was fine.

Then i looked at the other connector on the starter and has the fat black/white wire which leads to the 3rd plug i was talking about and was not plugged into anything. So i checked the main relay and got power source from there which was the same colour as well. <-- this one is ok!

BUT the fat black/yellow wire which came from the 2 plug distributor which also had a blue wire... now where does these two wires go?????

update - i managed to hook up the fat black/yellow wire ... she now cranks but wont fire up!! the blue wire is still not connected to anything.- can anyone confirm this?



coz i checked out my mates B18C and has the sames plugs which is connected but these wires are not with the ECU looms, it is on the left side of the engine bay -seperate looms which i think goes back to the main relays and incabin etc..

sorry fellaz for the crappy pic , i hope it will help abit ..

does any one know what could be the problem why she wont fire up?

ignitor?? <-- does this have something to do with it?

ignition wires?

possible distributor?

starter motor? but this one is a good item, it doesnt make any bad azz clicking sounds.

basically ive got 2 wires from the ECU incabin where one of them has something to do with data connector wire which goes nowhere - so i didnt wire this up.

then the ELD - electronic load detector wire - i dont know where to hook this up to.. can anyone tell me where i can wire this up to?

The car is not showing any CEL codes, the concertos main relay is in the car just behind the stereo setup and shes clicking fine, fuel is supplied from the rear and to the engine -injectors as i can here her wind! .. as i said above she cranks but no signal to fire her up.

The battery is fine as its reading 12.55 volts with everything off, then whilst cranking she drops to 9.46volts ..is this normal?

also from searching on the www. people are saying something about pushing down the clutch pedal then try starting it? is this necessary?

havent checked if i got spark coz ran out of time - will get that checked tomorrow.

BIG HELP IS NEEDED!!! any suggestions - but i am really concerned about the massive plug that is not connected to anything as above pic.

thanks guys!

[ECU-MAN]

you have already posted this info

dont double post its gets confusing

see http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...t=50839&page=3

[CRXer]

Firstly,take ELD wire out of your car & hook it up to the garbage bin.

Do you have the whole OBD1 loom or just the passenger side?

The passenger side is easy as u found out,all just goes straight back to ecu.

The drivers side is the tricky bit.If u got the whole OBD1 loom u need to cut the engine to dash wiring out of it as well like u did to passenger side.

Plug 2A & 2B should be hooked up.

The 2 pin plug
Find the black/white & black/yellow wires coming off your ignition switch & hook them up to there.
Blk/Wh wire= starter solenoid.Goes from starter to start position on ign switch.
Blk/Ylw wire= ignition supply.Goes from dizzy to Ign 1 position on ign switch.
Find original wires under dash where they went thru firewall & join them there.

The large plug.
Yellow/Blk wire(very important,without u got no fuel even thou u can hear pump)= injector,O2 sens,IACV supply.Hook up to same colour wire coming off the main relay.
Pink/Blue=IAB,u dont have one so ignore if present.
Black/blue=IACV,run back to ecu pin A9
Blue=tacho,goes from dizzy back to your tacho.
Yell/Green=Coolant temp sender.Hook up to guage in your cluster.
White/blue=Alternator charge light.Goes back to battery light on cluster.
Orange=speed sensor(depends on if your using electronic or cable sender)If electronic,hook up to speedo & tee off a leg back to ecu pin B10.
Yell/Red=Oil pressure.Hook up to oil light on cluster.
Green=coolant temp switch(also very improtant) Run back to ecu pin A12,also tees off to radiator fan relay(yell/green in concerto I think,trace it back from the relay,cant remember where I hooked up mine,I think under dash.If u cut into it hook both ends up as it also goes to A/C diode)

Cant remember if there were others,but hook these up & see whats left.

Dont bother pulling cluster out(unless converting to elec speedo)
Just find the wires under dash where they originally went thru firewall & join them there.

Also please double check all colours I gave u with multi,as i'm going off my crx,should be same for yours.

BTW,your car wont have a clutch switch,so dont worry about the clutch thing.

Oh,as ECU-MAN said in other thread,will be yellow & green/black wires for reverse lights,hook up to original wires under dash of the same colours where they went thru firewall.

The 2 left over wires are the data connector & service check connector(SCS).Dont worry about data for now just leave wire handy(tape to SCS wire if needed later).
Hook SCS wire up to a discrete switch somewhere which switches onto a ground wire.I dont know how your checking codes without this hooked up.

[XB-16-AX]

you have already posted this info

dont double post its gets confusing

see http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...t=50839&page=3

ECU-MAN pls delete the above link ...i will keep this post .. as i mentioned on my previous thread to delete it.

cheers!

[XB-16-AX]

Firstly,take ELD wire out of your car & hook it up to the garbage bin.

Do you have the whole OBD1 loom or just the passenger side?

The passenger side is easy as u found out,all just goes straight back to ecu.

The drivers side is the tricky bit.If u got the whole OBD1 loom u need to cut the engine to dash wiring out of it as well like u did to passenger side.

Yellow/Blk wire(very important,without u got no fuel even thou u can hear pump)= injector,O2 sens,IACV supply.Hook up to same colour wire coming off the main relay.

Cant remember if there were others,but hook these up & see whats left.

Dont bother pulling cluster out(unless converting to elec speedo)
Just find the wires under dash where they originally went thru firewall & join them there.

Also please double check all colours I gave u with multi,as i'm going off my crx,should be same for yours.

BTW,your car wont have a clutch switch,so dont worry about the clutch thing.

Oh,as ECU-MAN said in other thread,will be yellow & green/black wires for reverse lights,hook up to original wires under dash of the same colours where they went thru firewall.

The 2 left over wires are the data connector & service check connector(SCS).Dont worry about data for now just leave wire handy(tape to SCS wire if needed later).
Hook SCS wire up to a discrete switch somewhere which switches onto a ground wire.I dont know how your checking codes without this hooked up.

i only got the passenger side of the loom but the drivers side was missing as i mentioned above.

i will have to try and wire up the missing wires and hopefully it will sort something out.

but the above wires on the big plug seems like it has nothing to do with the engine firing up.

maybe the yellow/black wire above in bold - could this be possibly the problem why the engine wont kick over? <-- so this wire does not hookup to the ECU but the main relay and ignition key?

i hear fuel in the engine bay area when the key turned prior to cranking.

except for the two plug which has the black/yellow and black/white which is part of the starter and ignition key.

[string]

It's pretty simple. You need three things. Compression, spark and fuel.

When cranking do your injectors fire? (listen for clicks)
When cranking do you have spark? (pull a lead out and put it next to the chassis)

Instead of cranking, you could take off your distributor and turn it to simulate cranking; Saves a bit of battery and you can do it from the engine bay (don't need a second person).

Does your ecu have power on "on"?

[CRXer]

maybe the yellow/black wire above in bold - could this be possibly the problem why the engine wont kick over? <-- so this wire does not hookup to the ECU but the main relay and ignition key?

Main relay supplies power to the ecu( upon ignition being turned on) & to the injectors,IACV,O2 sensor(on B18C,think would be similar for B16) through this yell/blk wire. Without it your going nowhere.

So run a wire from main relay to plug in engine bay.Under the dash somewhere, tee off it and plug into ecu A25 & B1.

U will need black/blue & green wires hooked up as well to start it sensibly,i'm assuming youve worked out the 2 pin plug.

[ECU-MAN]

you should really take the above advice

[XB-16-AX]

It's pretty simple. You need three things. Compression, spark and fuel.

When cranking do your injectors fire? (listen for clicks)
When cranking do you have spark? (pull a lead out and put it next to the chassis)

Instead of cranking, you could take off your distributor and turn it to simulate cranking; Saves a bit of battery and you can do it from the engine bay (don't need a second person).

Does your ecu have power on "on"?

imma check this out soon as i see the car again!! will check for injector clicking and spark on leads.

im pretty sure i have power on the ECU ..

Main relay supplies power to the ecu( upon ignition being turned on) & to the injectors,IACV,O2 sensor(on B18C,think would be similar for B16) through this yell/blk wire. Without it your going nowhere.

So run a wire from main relay to plug in engine bay.Under the dash somewhere, tee off it and plug into ecu A25 & B1.

U will need black/blue & green wires hooked up as well to start it sensibly,i'm assuming youve worked out the 2 pin plug.

i will double check this again ...as i have not seen the car as yet.. will sus put the wires tomorrow

[Benson]

check the wire thats send the signal to the starter motor.... it might have a cut somewhere

u can start/crank the car using a piece of wire and tounching the signal terminal on the starter motor to the power soruce which is also located to the starter motor... remember to put the car on accessories before doing this... the car shuld crank and start... if it doesnt, check ground and the connection to the battery. use a multimeter, its ur bestfriend...

hope this helps

[XB-16-AX]

check the wire thats send the signal to the starter motor.... it might have a cut somewhere

u can start/crank the car using a piece of wire and tounching the signal terminal on the starter motor to the power soruce which is also located to the starter motor... remember to put the car on accessories before doing this... the car shuld crank and start... if it doesnt, check ground and the connection to the battery. use a multimeter, its ur bestfriend...

hope this helps

OK THIS IS THE LATEST!!

1) I checked to see if i have spark = YES - distributor was checked too and is producing spark.

2) I checked if i have fuel pressure = YES - from the fuel pump to fuel rail.

3) I checked if i have power in the injectors = YES - injectors have power.

4) i have tried bridging the starter signal to the starter power and just keeps cranking but doesnt kick over to engine running.

5) I checked the battery and its ok reading 12.55v normal and while cranking 9.66v.

6) i have grounding from the tranny, rocker/tappet cover/ and thermostat groundings. <---is there any other groundings?

The large plug.
Yellow/Blk wire(very important,without u got no fuel even thou u can hear pump)= injector,O2 sens,IACV supply.Hook up to same colour wire coming off the main relay. <-- i have tried connecting this str8 to the A25/B1 and still nothing.

Black/blue=IACV,run back to ecu pin A9 <-- CONNECTED
Blue=tacho,goes from dizzy back to your tacho - <-- CONNECTED
Yell/Green=Coolant temp sender.Hook up to guage in your cluster. <-- CONNECTED
White/blue=Alternator charge light.Goes back to battery light on cluster. <--CONNECTED
Orange=speed sensor(depends on if your using electronic or cable sender)If electronic,hook up to speedo & tee off a leg back to ecu pin B10. <-- IM USING CABLE
Yell/Red=Oil pressure.Hook up to oil light on cluster. <-- CONNECTED
Green=coolant temp switch(also very improtant) Run back to ecu pin A12,also tees off to radiator fan relay(yell/green in concerto I think,trace it back from the relay,cant remember where I hooked up mine,I think under dash.If u cut into it hook both ends up as it also goes to A/C diode) <-- CONNECTED

I did notice that there is a single BLACK wire on the 2B (aboce pic) plug. didnt know where this goes, but i checked it with a multi and it seems like a ground to the thermostat <-- shall i ground this wire, or is this wire suppose to have a 1volt reading? as it shares the same terminal point with the TDC/CYP wires on the thermostat?

how do u check to see if the ECU has power? my ECU does not have an LED on it, i mean when cranking - everything on the dash cluster lights up e.g. CEL then turns off. - ALL my dash fuses are all ok and the engine fuse box too.

BUT this is the weird thing, while its cranking i can hear the main relay switching on and off quickly <-- is this normal? could my main relay possibly be farked? - but it was working fine b4 the engine conversion.

Could it possibly be the way that my ignition to main relay is setup? - im just going off by the way the old ignition setup was.

I noticed that on the P30 ECU pinout it says IGP2 but my car does not have a IGP2, so the way the old ECU was setup with the 2 yellow/black wire was IGP1 <-- so this is where i connected the A25/B1 yellow/black wire, could this be why the engine wont fire up?

In regards to the ELD and SCS wires - they are just floating around and taped up.

As mentioned by CRXer about the black/blue wire <-- is does not exist. the green wire does which is connected to the radiator fan wire & coolant temp switch.

i checked all the wiring from the ECU to engine like 8 times already - im sure its something small that i overlooked at which i would definately kick my own AZZ!!

I have got an Auto and Manual P30 ECU's and they both wont fire up the car!!!!

Does anyone know what other possibilities i could check? and is anyone from sydney area that could give me a hand with the wiring? or know a good but reasonable auto electrician who knows what they are doing?

Thank guys MORE help would be appreciated!

[CRXer]

OK THIS IS THE LATEST!!

1) I checked to see if i have spark = YES - distributor was checked too and is producing spark.

2) I checked if i have fuel pressure = YES - from the fuel pump to fuel rail.

3) I checked if i have power in the injectors = YES - injectors have power.

4) i have tried bridging the starter signal to the starter power and just keeps cranking but doesnt kick over to engine running.

5) I checked the battery and its ok reading 12.55v normal and while cranking 9.66v.

6) i have grounding from the tranny, rocker/tappet cover/ and thermostat groundings. <---is there any other groundings?



I did notice that there is a single BLACK wire on the 2B (aboce pic) plug. didnt know where this goes, but i checked it with a multi and it seems like a ground to the thermostat <-- shall i ground this wire, or is this wire suppose to have a 1volt reading? as it shares the same terminal point with the TDC/CYP wires on the thermostat?There are no more grounds on the motor,however that black wire in 2B plug should go back to ECU pins A23 & A24,if u picked up ground from somewhere else inside car for these pins,use this black wire coming from motor instead as it will give a better reference for the motor sensors

how do u check to see if the ECU has power? my ECU does not have an LED on it, i mean when cranking - everything on the dash cluster lights up e.g. CEL then turns off. - ALL my dash fuses are all ok and the engine fuse box too.If CEL turning off after 2 secs,sounds like everything powered & fine.

BUT this is the weird thing, while its cranking i can hear the main relay switching on and off quickly <-- is this normal? could my main relay possibly be farked? - but it was working fine b4 the engine conversion.No it should not be clicking rapidly,this seems like the prob.Recheck connections here,

Pin 1 = direct battery supply,thru ECU fuse in engine bay.
Pin 2 = ground,again, tee off black wire stated above for connection
Pin 3 = yell/black supply as discussed above many times.
Pin 4 or 6(depending on your relay) = supply off start position on ign switch(also goes to ECU pin B9)
Pin 5 = Supply off Ign 1 position on ign switch
Pin 7 = To fuel pump
Pin 8 = To ECU pin A7 (for fuel pump relay coil)

I think my pin 7 is yell/black as well in crx,did u hook yell/black wire weve been discussing to this,instead of to pin 3 like it should be


Could it possibly be the way that my ignition to main relay is setup? - im just going off by the way the old ignition setup was.

I noticed that on the P30 ECU pinout it says IGP2 but my car does not have a IGP2, so the way the old ECU was setup with the 2 yellow/black wire was IGP1 <-- so this is where i connected the A25/B1 yellow/black wire, could this be why the engine wont fire up?Its just numbers for 2 connections of the ign.A25 & B1 should be bridged with that same ol' yell/blk wire off main relay.

In regards to the ELD and SCS wires - they are just floating around and taped up.Good.But the SCS wire has to be grounded to do a code check,do this with ign off and then switch on to 1st position & see if CEL flashes any codes at ya.

As mentioned by CRXer about the black/blue wire <-- is does not exist. the green wire does which is connected to the radiator fan wire & coolant temp switch.Check colour on your IACV valve & hook the one thats NOT yell/black to ECU pin A9.U havent mentioned anything about a 3rd plug on engine harness should be near 2A & 2B plugs.Its a whole lot of yell/blk wires connected together that are just capped off.If all injectors are working than its sounds like this is hooked up.It just connects all yell/blk supplies to things i mentioned prev together so they are all supplied.

i checked all the wiring from the ECU to engine like 8 times already - im sure its something small that i overlooked at which i would definately kick my own AZZ!!

I have got an Auto and Manual P30 ECU's and they both wont fire up the car!!!!

Does anyone know what other possibilities i could check? and is anyone from sydney area that could give me a hand with the wiring? or know a good but reasonable auto electrician who knows what they are doing?Where is car located & is it available after hours to look at.

Thank guys MORE help would be appreciated!

See blue stuff.