WOE is me, whiteline swaybar and ripped subframe

[bennjamin]

can we make a petition to whiteline, so that they will improve/give better bolts? or even make a better design.

spoke to one of the lead engineers there ~ and stupidly criticized why the whiteline bolts are lower than OEM spec.....got a 1 hr ear brandishing (he was doing my alignment lol)

So , in numbers we can make a difference. But at what cost ?

[twing]

I know someone with 'Whiteline' nick is in this forum. He doesn't accept PM ! DOH !!! i wish i could ask him to join this discussion.

I'm thinking to get 18mm upgrade.. i guess it's safer to postpone it.

[tinkerbell]

i am still confused, is the low spec EK Civic subframe weak, or the Whiteline kit for the EK Civic inappropriate?

[Muzz]

nothing against whiteline or anything, good australian company. But i was not happy at all with the instructions. The ones for the front bar was simply a sheet with 3 pictures!

And the quality of the welds on there mounts were not good at all, i had to remove the tubes to mount the bar using my asr brace

Mounting bracket for whiteline kit, and with tubes removed^^^^



3 of the tackwelds were not actually fused with the plate! i started to grind the weld, and i noticed what looked like a slight crack between the weld and the flat plate. I got a chissel and just leavered it up, the plate metal hadnt melted with the actual weld! i then removed another 2 of the welds by hand with the chissel, the rest needed grinding though. im hoping it was only my mounts, maby the welder wasnt set at the correct temp for the job that day?

[Muzz]

i am still confused, is the low spec EK Civic subframe weak, or the Whiteline kit for the EK Civic inappropriate?

Both, but the whiteline mounting kit is not sufficient, people have ripped their subframes using it. Comptech and asr are the only kits ive seen out there that really brace the subframe ears sufficiently. Maby if whiteline used a single long plate instead of two seperate plates, it might change this.

up to date, i dont believe anyones had issues using the comptech and asr braces on the "low spec" ek subframe

[muhhan]

Why waste your time signing a petition? You can send an even more powerful message by not buying their products.

Having said that, I'm happy with my gear which is ironically all Whiteline. I believe their products are well R&D'ed just seems that there are a few niggling problems and only on a select few vehicles. Is it Whiteline's problem or Honda's problem? In the end we are trying to put something on the car that the car wasn't designed for. To draw an analogy, you can't just go slapping a turbo on an NA engine without working it and reinforcing the other parts and expect to be just as reliable, why isn't this the same with the swaybar?

[Muzz]

Having said that, I'm happy with my gear which is ironically all Whiteline. I believe their products are well R&D'ed just seems that there are a few niggling problems and only on a select few vehicles. Is it Whiteline's problem or Honda's problem? In the end we are trying to put something on the car that the car wasn't designed for. To draw an analogy, you can't just go slapping a turbo on an NA engine without working it and reinforcing the other parts and expect to be just as reliable, why isn't this the same with the swaybar?

exactly, if your subframe cant take the stresses of adding a bigger bar, its up to you to brace the subframe yourself. however it would be nice for whiteline to offer a kit which truly addresses this problem, or for them to actually let it be known to the buyer when buying the bar, on the instructions whatever, that it is an issue that can happen now and then and should really be addressed. instead of just selling you the kit without any mention that there mounts really dont offer the protection from the issue, or even that the issue exists.

IMO if there was an accident caused because somones subframe snapped and the car somhow lost control, it would be whitelines fault because they know about the problem, and they havnt made any attempts to warn the user of the issue, nor have they tried to eliminate it.

[Perry]

from my knowledge about whiteline kits for ek's, they tested it on a ek4 not ek1's but i could be wrong

[A.G.System]

from my knowledge about whiteline kits for ek's, they tested it on a ek4 not ek1's but i could be wrong

Your 1/2 right.

They have 2 kits, one for the EK1 and one for the Ek4.

The problem being that the EK1 has no standard bar and this is why the kit they supply is not up to standard.

Whereas the EK4 has mounting points and its just a matter of replacing the bar that is there.

Kinda why if you are going to add a bar to a CXI/GLI civic it is always better to put in that extra effort to make sure all your equiptment is up to standard and you have enough strengthening to counter the extra pressures.

[bennjamin]

Your 1/2 right.

They have 2 kits, one for the EK1 and one for the Ek4.

The problem being that the EK1 has no standard bar and this is why the kit they supply is not up to standard.

Whereas the EK4 has mounting points and its just a matter of replacing the bar that is there.

Kinda why if you are going to add a bar to a CXI/GLI civic it is always better to put in that extra effort to make sure all your equiptment is up to standard and you have enough strengthening to counter the extra pressures.

The EK1 or anything apart from the EM1/EK4 has the mounting holes , but no welded on bolts on the rear of the subframe side.
(this is the exact same for EG civics that didnt have a rear swaybar ~ breeze / Gli etc).
From this info I and others assume the EK4 subframe is exactly the same apart from this small difference....UNLESS someone can prove us wrong ?
Maybe different thickness metal ?

Also , i would not reccommend anyone use a "replacemnt" swaybar upgraded ( IE using existing mounts / reinforcement) as Honda has designed it to last with limits in mind. Putting a 18mm swaybar where a 14mm exists DOES put more stress on the subframe and will prematurely wear the subframe or mount points. I did this exactly ~ (EG5 with 14mm stock , upgraded with a 18mm replacement. Correctly installed and torqued , and after about 4 months one side of the reinforcement broke off)


I think we can forget the issue that whiteline uses lower grade bolts ~ its the subframe and mounting that needs the most attention

[Whiteline]

Hi Everyone,

We've just been made aware of this post and asked to join-in the discussion. After spending some time carefully reading the thread, we're dissapointed that people are experiencing these problems. But, we do stand behind our products and take all criticism on board and try to learn for the future.

While we sell many swaybars both locally and around the world, and our Project EK Civic car was fitted with the current generation design swaybars for many years, was raced and driven by everyone and anyone including journalists with out problems. To date we were aware of only a few cases associated with subframe cracking, and two of those were local customers which we believe to have taken care of. We have investigated each case at the time to try to find out what the actual problem is, and on balance we did not find conclusive information to point to the design of the bars. As for mounting hardware, the current specs of the replacement control arms bolts supplied with our kits are high tensile Grade 12.9.

To be on the safe side, we have decided to temporarily withdraw these swaybars from sale while we review this issue in detail, but if anyone needs new brackets, bolts, hardware, etc… or any assistance at all, please contact us direct and we’ll be happy to oblige. That includes anyone that has purchased an 18mm Whiteline swaybar and would like some heavy duty brackets to suit.

As always, we’re happy to answer any questions.

Regards,
Wojtek.

Whiteline Automotive

[A.G.System]

Glad to see that Whiteline have taken this as a serious issue and look forward to seeing that the issue can be corrected as soon as possible.

Id personally be glad to see what Whiteline creates from this discussion and hope that, even if it means creating more expensive Sub Frame reinforcement style hardware at least it will give people piece of mind.

Look forward to seeing any results in the near future

Please keep us update with pics and any information.

We will in turn gladly support the Australian built product.