Honda Adds New Type R to Civic Lineup *Hot off the press*

[aaronng]

The reason for leaving out the torsion beam suspension is to increase the rigidity during cornering, improving handling through tighter bends. It comes back to these key characteristics.

Not really. The reason is because the UK designed Civic borrowed its platform from the Jazz. Since the CTR we are getting is based on the UK Civic, it has the torsion beam suspension.

You don't want your rear suspension to end up being non-independent because any bumps experienced mid-corner by one wheel will be transmitted to the other wheel, causing the rear to lose traction. Fine if you want to drift (butt drag), but not if you want to stay in control.

[pkn]

Not really. The reason is because the UK designed Civic borrowed its platform from the Jazz. Since the CTR we are getting is based on the UK Civic, it has the torsion beam suspension.

You don't want your rear suspension to end up being non-independent because any bumps experienced mid-corner by one wheel will be transmitted to the other wheel, causing the rear to lose traction. Fine if you want to drift (butt drag), but not if you want to stay in control.

Ahh I see. Interesting point. Seeing as it is a 3dr hatch, do you think that the engineers perhaps believed that because of the shorter wheelbase they went with the torsion beam suspension?

[aaronng]

Ahh I see. Interesting point. Seeing as it is a 3dr hatch, do you think that the engineers perhaps believed that because of the shorter wheelbase they went with the torsion beam suspension?

They usually go for rear torsion bar suspension so that boot width is maximised. If you look at cars with rear multilink, boot width is reduced by the intrusion of the suspension cavity. On my Euro, the rear boot width is worse than in our old Astra sedan (which as rear torsion beam suspension)

[slipangle]

Mate I'm probably going to open up a can of worms here, but its a forum, so what the heck.



I think you're missing the point of the whole 'Type R' philosophy here. When making a Type R, there are certain key characteristics:
-racing - exhilarating experience
-involvement - driver should feel part of the machine (sound, response, handling)
-not just speed - focus in gear change quality, braking, steering & handling
-pure - driving should not be diluted or interefered with by over-intrusive driving aids
-engineering - different approach to design & development
-normally aspirated - whats the point of silly power figures
-torsional rigidity - balance & adjustability
-simple technology - why rely on electronic gadgetry?

It is my perception that the CTR has been built to these characteristics.

The reason for leaving out the torsion beam suspension is to increase the rigidity during cornering, improving handling through tighter bends. It comes back to these key characteristics.

As mentioned earlier, the rear susp setup on the UK car is a packaging consideration as opposed to an best case engineering solution. This speaks volumes about the execution of this particular "Type R" model.

I agree that Type R is not defined by its power figures or gadgetry, it's all about the driving experience. Electric variable power steering on the UK CTR is not the ideal setup for feel, which most of us would agree is a large contributor to involvement... and is one of the criticisms of the UK car by credible journalists.

The team behind the UK car has publicly stated that one of aims for their car was to make it a more comfortable offering as not everone wanted the "hardcore" experience...if that's the case, call it a Type S!. Type R's SHOULD be hardcore, dilution of this philosophy dilutes the Type R brand we know and love.

On all the points you've mentioned, I would rather spend my $40k+ on the Japanese car as a more effective execution of those items.

[rosso]

i want them engines on my 98 haha

[kevster]

The new ctr is soft, not a real drivers car, the rear end is a big sticking point with me its cheap and nasty to build, no double wishbones, dead feel about it. until they build a car similar to what went into making my dc2 type r i wont be getting one.

[sitta]

it u say this ctr is soft than what do you call the gti? a pillow?

[aaronng]

The new ctr is soft, not a real drivers car, the rear end is a big sticking point with me its cheap and nasty to build, no double wishbones, dead feel about it. until they build a car similar to what went into making my dc2 type r i wont be getting one.

Go drive one first before making judgements like that. The JDM CTR has front Macpherson struts, which pales when compared to the DC2's double wishbone. Are you going to say that the JDM CTR is crap compared to the DC2R just based on suspension? (BTW, JDM CTR is faster than a DC2R on Suzuka)

[madella]

when is ctr coming out?

[UNLS1]

when is ctr coming out?

lol read the civic thread.

official release is 2nd of july

but its out now, people are buying them and driving them.