Autospeed say Civic Type R is weak

[DreadAngel]

*gets into his Z06 C5R and hauls ass to Ford Dealership*

[Omotesando]

You know what is really weird?
I actually found that article to be very un-biased.

"The torque curve of a naturally aspirated engine is flatter: that is, there isn’t the rush of torque when a turbo comes on boost. Fans of small naturally aspirated engines will say that the flat torque curve allows better throttle control. That a certain movement of the throttle will give the same increase in torque at the wheels, irrespective of whether the revs are at 2000 or 4000 rpm. That when you’re cornering on slippery surfaces, feeding-in power and feeling the front-end just starting to walk, the last thing you want is a sudden rush of power."

"And if the naturally aspirated engines being fitted to these cars were large enough, or, to put it more accurately, had a sufficiently high ratio of torque to the car’s weight, this argument would be great. You could have decent acceleration from low revs and have excellent throttle control. This Eunos 30X was fitted with a 2.5 litre V6 and had excellent acceleration and throttle control."


I dont understand what is wrong with comparing the Civic Type R to the turbo hatches mentioned. It is the Type R's 'targeted' direct competitors on the market.

Julian did reply as follows:

"One of the reasons I was underwhelmed by the Type R was its lack of performance in what is, ostensibly, a performance car."

I agree with him wholeheartedly. The car is overweight for its torque, and also for its chassis. I just don't see why Honda released it under the Type R badge despite it being a different philosophy than the JDM version. If it had a Type S or Type F for Fun badge on it then that's a completely different issue.

This guy loves the DC5 Integra Type S and also the DC2 Type Rs. He even loves the NA Magna V6s. So I dont think he's against the NA cars at all. He's barely saying that this particular car is not fast enough relative to its original philosophy and when duly compared to its competitors.

What's wrong with that?

[blahZ]

new ctr are overrated

[locote]

If it retailed for 30k it wouldnt be

[fasthonda]

new ctr are overrated

I don't know who has overrated the FN2R,maybe Honda's marketing department?
What's going to be interesting is when the new EVO X and Subaru STI are released.
I assure you they will have a ton more torque and certainly more HP and straight line speed than the FD2R.-that would make it a weak car according to Autospeed's backyard mechanic.
The only overating has been concerning the FD2R, a car that is not available in Australia and thus not driven by anyone on these forums.

[Omotesando]

Yeah but is that car actually coming to Australia?

Let's face it. Honda stuffed up by calling the version here the Type R. They stuffed up last time already by giving a watered down version of the Integra Type R, no brembos and less power (blame the fuel though).

Although what I think is really really wrong these days? It'll have to be the TRD supercharged Aurion. Seems silly even next to the Mazda 3 MPS.

I just think the local FD2R needs a better engine with torque, but it doesnt necessarily mean super/turbo charged. The Type R philosophy should be about 'balance'. Unfortunately I dont see balance in this CTR.

[Tofu]

The Type R philosophy should be about 'balance'. Unfortunately I dont see balance in this CTR.

exact reason why I dislike the FN2R...
it tries to be a more refined car, yet it tries to be a performance hot hatch...Honda UK tried to be good at doing two things at once but in the end they failed at both.

[DreadAngel]

Yeah but is that car actually coming to Australia?

Let's face it. Honda stuffed up by calling the version here the Type R. They stuffed up last time already by giving a watered down version of the Integra Type R, no brembos and less power (blame the fuel though).

Although what I think is really really wrong these days? It'll have to be the TRD supercharged Aurion. Seems silly even next to the Mazda 3 MPS.

I just think the local FD2R needs a better engine with torque, but it doesnt necessarily mean super/turbo charged. The Type R philosophy should be about 'balance'. Unfortunately I dont see balance in this CTR.

Honda Oz learnt thats why they give us the full UKDM spec LOL You have to admit, Honda Oz played it smart lol Nobody can blame them of a watered down version cause he get what the Poms get lol. As for badging it Type-R, its badged as Type-R in UK why rebadge it to something else in Oz? It wouldn't make sense.

I envy Malaysia, they get the JDM CTR Sedan!!!

[sitta]

new ctr are overrated

dont think its overrated. Its just that people expect too much and they are dissapointed that it doesnt deliver what they expected this people saying its over rated

[fasthonda]

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I just think the local FD2R needs a better engine with torque, but it doesnt necessarily mean super/turbo charged. The Type R philosophy should be about 'balance'. Unfortunately I dont see balance in this CTR.

I understand the point you are making but,the Type R phliosophy is really anything that Honda wants it to be and will change it as much as it feels fit to do so.
I work in the car industry and it really is about sales and lowering costs.Honda Australia doesn't need to bring out the Type R or the JDM Type R to survive ,blandness sells ,just ask Toyota.
I realise some people on this forum have felt shortchanged by this new CTR however, I really liked the car and bought one.
Just remember it took VW almost 20 years to get their GTI back on track,imagine how the enthuasiasts felt -IMHO Honda hasn't done too badly.
Whichever car manufacturer you follow,I guarantee they will disappoint in one way or another somewhere down the line.
The biggest disappointment has been the design of the Civics from the year 2000 to the current sedan.To me,the current sedan looks like a Korean airport rental car to others it looks great,but as long as they're happy with their car ,good on them!
At the end of the day,I am a Honda fan and Honda is still one of the greatest car companies in the world -although I may not always see eye to eye with them on some things.

One more thing- the Autospeed article talks about the Eunos 30X with a 2.5 litre V6 non standard engine,the original had a 1.8L V6 99kw,159 NM in 1996.
(I know the point he was trying to make) In 1996 the Honda Civic Vtir had 118 KW and 150 NM from a 1.6L engine-of course if one fitted a 2Litre it would have
better acceleration etc that's why I feel the reviewer comes across like a juvenile with a liking to "hotting" up cars.

[mpd076-chuck]

To those who have a CTR, I'm sure it is a fun car and it's well equipped.

Julian Edgar has not done himself any favours by lauding the Epica. However, I understand his sentiment regarding the CTR. Let me explain.

In 1999 I bought a DC2R. Back then competition was either a 200sx or a WRX. I preferred cheaper insurance so went with DC2R.

In June 2001 spec's for the JDM DC5 came out and many DC2R owners were keen to upgrade. Subsequently we got a watered down version and felt ripped off. The AUDC5R is still a good car and many DC2R owners did change over. In 2002-3 the 200sx was gone/going but competition was still coming from WRX and now Clio Sport. There were other cars like MX5 and 206GTI but I don't think they were as stiffer competition.

Fast forward to 2007 - GTI, MPS, Megane, Cooper S, VXR, XR5. How great it is to have so much choice! Now we know Honda's N/A philosophy and the FN2 engine and gearbox are gems. However, I have waited 6 years for Honda to release the next Type R, and it has almost the same power specs as the DC5R of Sept 2001. Power isn't everything, especially when you drive a Honda, but in 6 years we have received a funky exterior and better equipped car, no performance gains.

To many people that may be OK, or the way it should be.
However, I'm keen for Honda to release an entry level performance car that can mix it with the best of them, because we know they can build it.

To those have an FN2, please don't take this personally, it may not be the outright fastest but it looks like a fun drivers car

[Tofu]

when i went to test drive the CTR the sales person told me for those that have a DC5R may find the CTR more torquey...but for those with a DC5S will find the CTR's power and power delivery very similar to the TypeS.

and so after the test drive, i wasn't all that impressed especially needing to pay another $10k to buy the CTR from my TypeS, no thanks.