Suspension Problem?? Please help me.

[Steven Siew]

I have a new 2008 Honda Civic VTI (Australian edition)

The suspension was soft when I picked up the car from the dealer. But after a while it became quite harsh.

I brought the car to the Honda dealer service department and told them that the suspension was harsh. The foreman went for the test drive but said there is nothing wrong with the suspension / shock absorber.

The Honda dealer service department concluded that I was "imagining" things and that the problem was between my ears.

Since I'm a not a car expert, I could not argue back.

I did some reading on the web and learn as much as I could about shock absorbers and coil springs.

I believe that I was wrong about the shock absorber and the real problem may be that the coil springs had sagged. Remember the car is less than 1 month old.

To convince the service department, I decided I need concert evidence and I have measured the suspension with my tape measure.


Length from center of driver side front wheel to guard is 36cm

Length from center of passenger side front wheel to guard is 36cm

Length of driver side front lower guard to ground is 19.5cm

Length of passenger side front lower guard to ground is 19.5cm


Now here is my problem. I do not have the Honda Manufacturing specification for Honda Civic 2008 (Australian Edition) for suspension. So I have no idea what the proper suspension specs should be.

Can anyone be of assistance?

Steven Siew

[Merlin086]

Just go to the car yard and measure their cars....

Just pick the cars on level ground.

[JohnL]

I'd be extremely surprised if any of the springs had sagged, and this wouldn't have the affect of stiffenning the ride in any case.

About the only possible thing I can think of that might concievably cause your problem (as you percieve / describe it) might be that the dampers (aka, wrongly, as shock absorbers) had some gas below the pistons and this caused an overly soft damping action, but with some use this gas has bled into the upper part of the damper (where it should be), thus allowing the dampers to act as intended (i.e. stiffer than if gas were below the piston and the piston were pumping gas rather than fluid). Bit of a long shot though.

I reckon you're lucky, lots of people pay a lot of money to make their suspension stiffer, you're getting it for free!

[aaronng]

Have you checked your tyre pressure? Check it and let us know what it is.

[Steven Siew]

I'd be extremely surprised if any of the springs had sagged, and this wouldn't have the affect of stiffenning the ride in any case.

About the only possible thing I can think of that might concievably cause your problem (as you percieve / describe it) might be that the dampers (aka, wrongly, as shock absorbers) had some gas below the pistons and this caused an overly soft damping action, but with some use this gas has bled into the upper part of the damper (where it should be), thus allowing the dampers to act as intended (i.e. stiffer than if gas were below the piston and the piston were pumping gas rather than fluid). Bit of a long shot though.

I reckon you're lucky, lots of people pay a lot of money to make their suspension stiffer, you're getting it for free!

Thank you for your response.

As I mentioned before I'm not a car expert.

And I could not for the life of me imagine why anyone would want to pay out their hard earned cash to make the suspension (of their car) stiffer. I want my ride to be soft like Rolls Royce not a hard ride like my racing bicycle.

I had always equated a soft ride with high quality and stiff ride with low quality. I mean who wants to feel every little bump on the road? Shouldn't the (ultimate idealize) ride be so smooth that you can't even feel the road? After all, more stiff more vibration and more vibration more shaking. I dont want the car to be shaken to bits.

You hypothesis about gas being below the piston at the start of the car's life was something I did not considered. It would explain why the car rolled and sways like a over suspended big american car in the first 7 days of it's life.

I would like to measure the suspension on the Honda demo car at the dealer but I have to work monday-friday and so I shall do so on Saturday.

Steven Siew

[Steven Siew]

Have you checked your tyre pressure? Check it and let us know what it is.

The tyre pressure was 30 psi but would you trust the tyre pump at the petrol station? Since I cannot afford my own tyre gauge, that's what I have to go by.

[aaronng]

The tyre pressure was 30 psi but would you trust the tyre pump at the petrol station? Since I cannot afford my own tyre gauge, that's what I have to go by.

Get the dial type pressure gauge for $11 from BigW. Cheap and good.

[EG30]

Assuming they didnt leave the spring chocks on the springs ( where the car is delivered to the yard from the factory with those and to be removed at pre-delivery ), and tyre pressures are not too high...

Then it's unlikely your there is any diff between your new car and others on the yard.

You could always ask for a test drive on one of their demos to put your mind at ease.

[JohnL]

And I could not for the life of me imagine why anyone would want to pay out their hard earned cash to make the suspension (of their car) stiffer. I want my ride to be soft like Rolls Royce not a hard ride like my racing bicycle.

I had always equated a soft ride with high quality and stiff ride with low quality. I mean who wants to feel every little bump on the road? Shouldn't the (ultimate idealize) ride be so smooth that you can't even feel the road? After all, more stiff more vibration and more vibration more shaking. I dont want the car to be shaken to bits.

Steve,
All else being equal, and being very simplistic, the softer the springs and dampers the less responsive the handling of the car will tend to be, and very often the lower the levels of grip will tend to be. This is particularly so if the chassis suffers from excessive body roll because this can often affect the size of the tyre contact patches as the chassis rolls, i.e. the chassis roll also causes the wheels to tilt, thus reducing how much of the contact patch is in properly loaded contact with the road (effectively less 'rubber on the road', and therefore less grip).

Many people (including me, I like to be able to feel the road through the car, and hate it when I can't) will be happy to trade off some degree of ride 'plushness' for better handling response and improved grip. Driving a car that reacts sharply to inputs can be far more involving and satisfying than driving a car that doesn't. Having said that, some people do go to extremes to such a degree that handling and grip actually suffer (especially on bumpy roads).

Would you consider say Ferrari to have low quality suspension? Not that I know from personal experience (sigh..), but Ferraris (et al) will typically be quite stiff in the suspension, and their suspension will certainly be of much higher quality than that on say a Cadillac...

You hypothesis about gas being below the piston at the start of the car's life was something I did not considered.

Gas below the pistons is only likely with dampers that have been stored upside down or on their side before being fitted to the car. This is why when fitting new dampers it's advisable to pump them up and down through the full stroke several times before fitting, the idea being to 'bleed' any gas from below the piston to prevent any problems. When doing this you can often feel the gas being pumped from below to above the piston.

Having said this, some dampers (those described as 'high pressure gas') will work perfectly happily in any orientation (even upside down), but most dampers won't (including those described as 'low pressure gas').

It would explain why the car rolled and sways like a over suspended big american car in the first 7 days of it's life.

And if you fitted stiffer springs dampers to a big American car it would respond by rolling less and handling more sharply, probably with increased levels of grip (so long as the springs etc weren't ridiculously stiff). The car would handle better and be safer (steer and brake more predictably and better), but the ride quality would become harsher. It's all a compromise and the compromise is different depending on the sort of driver most likely to purchase (or modify) a given car, horses for courses...