Start clutch failure & solution

[lokets]

There were discussions touching on this before but I wonder if anyone actually confirmed they had a start clutch failure and what resolution resulted.

Few weeks ago, my auto Jazz 1.4 started to behave strange. It does not violent shudder but there is a mild but definite shuddering when the car starts up from rest. This is more evident when the car starts from rest while on a hill - and travels up the hill.

The shudder occurs for a short time, around 1/2 sec and then disappears. It happens when RPM is between say 1500 to 2000 RPM. It does not shudder once the car is in motion - regardless of engine rpm or speed.

And if I start moving real smoothly, pressing acelerator nice & easy, the shudder does not appear. But if I step on it (as in WOT), the car shudders when moving off from rest - and in this case, the shudder is very evident.

I suspect this is a start clutch problem but wonder if anyone else encountered a similar symptom.

- Did anyone had a confirmed start clutch failure?

- If so, what was the solution

- How much did it cost you and how long did it take?

My car is unfortunately out of warranty (by a year plus, car is 4 years+ old) - so any repairs by Honda dealer will be almost inevitable, unless (not sure about this) this is a recall issue. In which case, do I just pay for workmanship & the parts are free?

While I'm almost sure this is a start clutch failure, I will try different things to "fix" or reduce the effects - such as resetting the ECU computer (via methods in the Jazz service manual).

I did think of replacing the clutch myself but after looking at the darn Jazz manual, it freaks me out - you even need a special tool to open the inside of the CVT mechanism to get to the start clutch, process is really too hard & risky.

I'm not a happy person at this time.

[Samo]

There were discussions touching on this before but I wonder if anyone actually confirmed they had a start clutch failure and what resolution resulted.

Few weeks ago, my auto Jazz 1.4 started to behave strange. It does not violent shudder but there is a mild but definite shuddering when the car starts up from rest. This is more evident when the car starts from rest while on a hill - and travels up the hill.

The shudder occurs for a short time, around 1/2 sec and then disappears. It happens when RPM is between say 1500 to 2000 RPM. It does not shudder once the car is in motion - regardless of engine rpm or speed.

And if I start moving real smoothly, pressing acelerator nice & easy, the shudder does not appear. But if I step on it (as in WOT), the car shudders when moving off from rest - and in this case, the shudder is very evident.

I suspect this is a start clutch problem but wonder if anyone else encountered a similar symptom.

- Did anyone had a confirmed start clutch failure?

- If so, what was the solution

- How much did it cost you and how long did it take?

My car is unfortunately out of warranty (by a year plus, car is 4 years+ old) - so any repairs by Honda dealer will be almost inevitable, unless (not sure about this) this is a recall issue. In which case, do I just pay for workmanship & the parts are free?

While I'm almost sure this is a start clutch failure, I will try different things to "fix" or reduce the effects - such as resetting the ECU computer (via methods in the Jazz service manual).

I did think of replacing the clutch myself but after looking at the darn Jazz manual, it freaks me out - you even need a special tool to open the inside of the CVT mechanism to get to the start clutch, process is really too hard & risky.

I'm not a happy person at this time.

im so confused ... wat are u on abt ???

is it auto or manual .. its all over the place lol

[Dreams]

on your next service just ask them to reset the start clutch.

[anjingbalap]

replace ur transmission oil.. and reset start clutch

[lokets]

im so confused ... wat are u on abt ???

is it auto or manual .. its all over the place lol

Hi Samo. Start clutch is only for automatic (CVT), manual tranny does not have this. You can still have manual clutch burnout & failure, but this is different from this shuddering start clutch failure, which I believe is unique to Honda CVT.

Well, I can try what you folks are suggesting: (1) replace CVT oil, though that was replaced only about 30K km ago, (2) reset CVT computer.

But worse case scenario: assuming back to Honda dealer for slaughter ($$), how much did anyone who may had a similar experience pay for?

Thanks.

[Samo]

Hi Samo. Start clutch is only for automatic (CVT), manual tranny does not have this. You can still have manual clutch burnout & failure, but this is different from this shuddering start clutch failure, which I believe is unique to Honda CVT.

Well, I can try what you folks are suggesting: (1) replace CVT oil, though that was replaced only about 30K km ago, (2) reset CVT computer.

But worse case scenario: assuming back to Honda dealer for slaughter ($$), how much did anyone who may had a similar experience pay for?

Thanks.

oh cheers

learn something new everyday

[jazcivic]

How many Kms has your CVT done and how many transmission oil
change has occurred?

Had a similar problem with my CRV auto at 165,000Km, identical to
the problem you described with your Jazz CVT. The pedal got mashed
to the floor occassionally by couple of family members.
I replaced the oil every 20,000km. I started to use non-Honda
oil(after 100,000Km, which was a folly). I had quotes for
repairs ranging A$2,500-4,000. I had to try a cheaper approach...

The clutch slip disappeared after I flushed the auto transmission
3 times with genuine Honda auto transmission oil at $40 each!
Still cheap compared to a transmission teardown. I did the same
to a friend's Hyundai which deferred the inevitable for 20,000km.
He had a 2nd hand auto supplied and fitted 2 months ago for $1100.

The slippage could be due to the crud buildup over 165,000km.
I don't know how long the transmission would have lasted if
I've kept the CRV. I sold it 2 years ago to buy a manual Jazz.
Easier to do a clutch replacement than on an auto/CVT.

Hopefully the teardown on your CVT could be postponed with a few
CVT oil changes and computer resets.

Good luck.

[lokets]

How many Kms has your CVT done and how many transmission oil change has occurred?

Had a similar problem with my CRV auto at 165,000Km, identical to
the problem you described with your Jazz CVT. The pedal got mashed
to the floor occassionally by couple of family members.
I replaced the oil every 20,000km. I started to use non-Honda
oil(after 100,000Km, which was a folly). I had quotes for
repairs ranging A$2,500-4,000. I had to try a cheaper approach...

The clutch slip disappeared after I flushed the auto transmission
3 times with genuine Honda auto transmission oil at $40 each!
Still cheap compared to a transmission teardown. I did the same
to a friend's Hyundai which deferred the inevitable for 20,000km.
He had a 2nd hand auto supplied and fitted 2 months ago for $1100.

The slippage could be due to the crud buildup over 165,000km.
I don't know how long the transmission would have lasted if
I've kept the CRV. I sold it 2 years ago to buy a manual Jazz.
Easier to do a clutch replacement than on an auto/CVT.

Hopefully the teardown on your CVT could be postponed with a few
CVT oil changes and computer resets.

Good luck.

Thanks jazcivic for the suggestions/ideas. My CVT has done only one Honda genuine oil CVT change since new. The recommended change interval are at: 80K, 140K, 200K - that is every 60K km after the first change. The car has done close to 120K km now, so another scheduled CVT oil change is technically not due yet.

While your CRV fix appears to be fixed by tranny oil change, my CVT maybe different but nevertheless worth a try. I would need 4L of ATF-Z1 oil, total about $52. There's an alternative, a more expensive tranny oil specifically for CVT, that's $80 for 4L. I may go for the second one just to give it a try.

This start clutch issue appears to be unique to CVT and is different from your "normal" 4-speed auto as I believe your CRV does not have a start clutch - though an impending failure may give similar symptoms.

It is also interesting that this problem is less noticeable when the engine is cold and it becomes evident when engine is hot. Perhaps an oil-sensitive issue?!?

If it cost you $2.4K to $4K for regular auto tranny fix, I think my repair is going to cost a bomb (!!**!!). Anyway, shall go for the CVT reset & tranny oil change first, see how I go with that.

Thanks for your sympathy...

[anjingbalap]

u can try to put an "oil transmision cooler" it might cool ur transmission OIL much faster and it will make it softer (less jerking)

[vividjazz]

Change the CVT fluid more frequently VS. new CVT transmission because the fluid wasn't changed more regularly. The Honda fluid is certainly not cheap but its a lot cheaper than a whole new transmissions. Service intervals are a guide not gospel.

I change the CVT fluid every 20K and will never ever have any problems just like the oil is changed every 5K but I come from a Honda motorcycle background and know just how important fluids are for Hondas. I enjoy optimum performance and zero problems on each and every Honda vehicle I've owned and will ever own in future.

Some cars have service intervals of 20K for each oil change. Those vehicles run better with more regular oil changes just like most vehicles do.

Reduced performance often also means decreased economy which could be costing you more than the cost of fluids. Reduced satisfaction due to reduced performance is a lot more costly to me than a few liters of essential fluids.

[lokets]

I finally got a 4L bottle of CVT-only fluid which is extra expensive $81 versus the regular $50 (but unsuitable) ATF-Z1 fluid. And putting it in and running for a while, the juddering seems to have disappeared amazingly. It was just oil, but then again it could be new CVT-only oil as I had the ATF-Z1 previously. Anyway, I shall drive around abit more before coming to a conclusion. Wish me the best.

Also, while draining the CVT fluid, I found this interesting fact: the stock transmission drain plug is actually magnetic (weakly so). And this is from a stock drain plug with no modification. See: http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/showp...oto=6024&cat=2

[Jazzdude]

My car is now doing the same thing. I just had 60K service done.

The CVT fluid is not due to be changed for another 20K, but should I change it earlier? How long can I wait (the next service ok?)? Is this serious, ie, if I don't change it real soon, is my transmission is going to die?

Should I go easy on the accelerator?