Tuning splits

[trism]

nope nope nope.

We aren't talking about how to get a nice linear sound out of the car, all we are talking about is how to make the tweeters less harsh. But f you want to talk about a linear sound, I digress;

In a perfect world I'd tell NightKids to do away with the passive crossovers, and run an active system, using two channels on the amp to run the midbass, and the other two channels to run the tweeters, that way he could simply turn the gains down on the tweeter channel in order to attenuate them.

However, without an understanding of the best way to tune a system like this, and without a headunit that supports running an active front stage, including a high pass filter above 1.5k Hz there is no point.

I think you are not fully understanding what a high pass filter/low pass filter is. It is simply a cut off point that stops frequencies above or below the point to not get through. But its not just this simple. It isnt just a line that the is the cutoff point. Its actually a roll off. So for each octave that goes past the point, it is lowered by a doubling amount.

So for example, if we are running a fully active setup, with all crossover points set on the headunit, and a sub, midbass and tweeter, we may have a low pass filter on the sub channel, set at 80Hz, and rolling off above that. Its called a low pass filter because it only lets through frequencies lower than the cut off point.

We would set the midbass high pass filter at about 100hz so that it only plays above that, and the low pass filter at about 1.5khz The tweeters would then play from 1.8kHz and upwards.

Because each set of drivers is now on its own channel, rather than using the EQ to set rough levels, we use the gains. So if we feel that the tweeters are a little harsh, we turn the gain down a little. If there isnt enough midbass, we turn that gain up.

From here, we can use the EQ to fine tune the setup. Personally, a 5 band EQ isnt quite enough, when i had a 3 way active setup, i had a 31 band parametric EQ through through an Alpine PXA-H701 processor.

You can use this to adjust particular frequencies in order to get a linear sound. For example, during judging in the MEASQ competition, there was a particular song that was used to listen for resonance at a certain frequency. If it sounded bad in other songs, it would be 10x worse during this song. The fix was as simple as pulling down 315Hz to about -6db, and the resonance was all but gone.

There was another song that was great for finding harshness in tweeters, as the thread is about. all you had to do was adjust the EQ around 1.8 to 2.2khz and it went from ear bleeding to sounding like an angel.

What we can do with the crossover points on the headunit/processor is adjust them to get the best out of the drivers. So i was using Boston Acoustics Pro60 which were known to be able to play down to about 60hz comfortably, which most others couldnt, so i had them play down to 60hz, and then cut off with a stepp 24db curve. I then had my RE Audio XXX play from 60Hz down to 20Hz.

Others may not be able to play this low, so they will need to utilise the points i listed above, with 80 and 100hz

Its all about experimentation, go out, sit in the car and just listen, and play with the settings.



But, back to the original question, and my original argument. all that NightKids needs to do is go to the EQ on his headunit, and turn down the highest EQ point until it doesnt sound so bad.

[XB-16-AX]

nope nope nope.

We aren't talking about how to get a nice linear sound out of the car, all we are talking about is how to make the tweeters less harsh. But f you want to talk about a linear sound, I digress;

In a perfect world I'd tell NightKids to do away with the passive crossovers, and run an active system, using two channels on the amp to run the midbass, and the other two channels to run the tweeters, that way he could simply turn the gains down on the tweeter channel in order to attenuate them.

However, without an understanding of the best way to tune a system like this, and without a headunit that supports running an active front stage, including a high pass filter above 1.5k Hz there is no point.

I think you are not fully understanding what a high pass filter/low pass filter is. It is simply a cut off point that stops frequencies above or below the point to not get through. But its not just this simple. It isnt just a line that the is the cutoff point. Its actually a roll off. So for each octave that goes past the point, it is lowered by a doubling amount.

So for example, if we are running a fully active setup, with all crossover points set on the headunit, and a sub, midbass and tweeter, we may have a low pass filter on the sub channel, set at 80Hz, and rolling off above that. Its called a low pass filter because it only lets through frequencies lower than the cut off point.

We would set the midbass high pass filter at about 100hz so that it only plays above that, and the low pass filter at about 1.5khz The tweeters would then play from 1.8kHz and upwards.

Because each set of drivers is now on its own channel, rather than using the EQ to set rough levels, we use the gains. So if we feel that the tweeters are a little harsh, we turn the gain down a little. If there isnt enough midbass, we turn that gain up.

From here, we can use the EQ to fine tune the setup. Personally, a 5 band EQ isnt quite enough, when i had a 3 way active setup, i had a 31 band parametric EQ through through an Alpine PXA-H701 processor.

You can use this to adjust particular frequencies in order to get a linear sound. For example, during judging in the MEASQ competition, there was a particular song that was used to listen for resonance at a certain frequency. If it sounded bad in other songs, it would be 10x worse during this song. The fix was as simple as pulling down 315Hz to about -6db, and the resonance was all but gone.

There was another song that was great for finding harshness in tweeters, as the thread is about. all you had to do was adjust the EQ around 1.8 to 2.2khz and it went from ear bleeding to sounding like an angel.

What we can do with the crossover points on the headunit/processor is adjust them to get the best out of the drivers. So i was using Boston Acoustics Pro60 which were known to be able to play down to about 60hz comfortably, which most others couldnt, so i had them play down to 60hz, and then cut off with a stepp 24db curve. I then had my RE Audio XXX play from 60Hz down to 20Hz.

Others may not be able to play this low, so they will need to utilise the points i listed above, with 80 and 100hz

Its all about experimentation, go out, sit in the car and just listen, and play with the settings.



But, back to the original question, and my original argument. all that NightKids needs to do is go to the EQ on his headunit, and turn down the highest EQ point until it doesnt sound so bad.

comon bra ...we dont need to get into parametric or passive EQ's. these kids wont understand a thing! and we can go on for pages and pages of posts lol

but yes - at the end of the day HIGH/MID range is what needs to be played around here.

just play around with those settings and particularly the HU sound settings. - just make sure u set the AMP to NORMAL.

if ur local then i can tune the sounds of your car which then you can do happy laps around parra westfields and the chicks will check you out yuleh!

[NightKids]

Thanks for all the help guys. I must admit that I'm a I'll more confused from the more recent posts. Basically what I'm going to do now is go to my amp and see if I can set it to the frequency you guys mentioned. Put the filter to normal (which I think it already is now) then go to my headunit and see if I can lower the two highest frequencies.

Sound good?

[trism]

NOPE!!!

Just do the last part.

the first part isnt going to do anything.

[NightKids]

Excuse my ignorance but what do I set on my amp for my splits in the first place? When I muck around with the hz knob, I can't really hear much of a difference

[NightKids]

I think I know what you guys mean by my head unit having a 5 band equalizer. Just did some research and my headunit comes with the following bands. Which ones do I adjust?

100Hz - 315Hz - 1.25kHz - 3.15kHz - 8kHz

[honda_zivic]

the last 2.

[XB-16-AX]

I think I know what you guys mean by my head unit having a 5 band equalizer. Just did some research and my headunit comes with the following bands. Which ones do I adjust?

100Hz - 315Hz - 1.25kHz - 3.15kHz - 8kHz

100hz would be towards your Low freq

315-1.25hz are your Mid range

3.15-8hz are your High.

So put less of the Mid & High Freq ranges to eliminate those high pitches on your OP.

[XB-16-AX]

Excuse my ignorance but what do I set on my amp for my splits in the first place? When I muck around with the hz knob, I can't really hear much of a difference

If setting your amp to Normal / Full and it doesnt make any difference on the freq knob on the amp then that means u just need to tune the HU.

[NightKids]

Excellent will try to tune the head unit tomorrow and see how it goes! Will keep you all you guys posted ... !

Can't wait to play with the band. Testing track: Adele Someone Like You flac version

[Winno]

How did you go?

Before providing the (somewhat incorrect) advice already offered, we really should be seeking to know more about how your system is set up.
I know Morel products very well (I used to sell them and I also had a full Morel system in my last car).

I'd suggest, based on what you've said, that you might simply want to make the tweeters quieter relative to the rest of the sound.

This will make the sound more pleasnt, particularly when you turn the volume up.

Above anything else first, look at where your drivers are and how they're installed.

Can you tell us more about how and where they are installed?
Mids in the doors and tweeters on the dash/pillars?
Are the tweeters facing straight at you?

That sort of thing.

I'd be paying attention to this first before using the band aids spoken of here previously - high passing this, amp settings that, putting in bypass capacitors here, blah, blah, blah. Forget all that for now (and some of it forever).

So, tell us this frst and I'll advise you from there...

[xV73Cx]

How did you go?

Before providing the (somewhat incorrect) advice already offered, we really should be seeking to know more about how your system is set up.
I know Morel products very well (I used to sell them and I also had a full Morel system in my last car).

I'd suggest, based on what you've said, that you might simply want to make the tweeters quieter relative to the rest of the sound.

This will make the sound more pleasnt, particularly when you turn the volume up.

Above anything else first, look at where your drivers are and how they're installed.

Can you tell us more about how and where they are installed?
Mids in the doors and tweeters on the dash/pillars?
Are the tweeters facing straight at you?

That sort of thing.

I'd be paying attention to this first before using the band aids spoken of here previously - high passing this, amp settings that, putting in bypass capacitors here, blah, blah, blah. Forget all that for now (and some of it forever).

So, tell us this frst and I'll advise you from there...

This is going to be interesting. You speak of some expert in car audio systems and tuning.

Just because you have had previously the same split system brand doesnt mean your statement somewhat overrides everyone elses.

Your system or setup is different to what OP has and wants to achieve. You dont have the same car, head unit, amp, amp wiring kit, speaker locations or the way it was installed.

You just cant jump in and criticize other helpful advises or comments. Being all superhero

Its situations like this confuses the original requestor - OP.

Rather than putting people down, just provide your responses in a proactive way rather than reactive.

Just saying.