Gen2 CRX - B18 or Turbo charge, Any suggestion

[nigs]

wait wait wait


you're talking about torque... and giving the advantage to the n/a motors?

doesn't work like that.

forced induction makes torque. n/a honda motors do not make torque.

All of the concerns mentioned regarding turbo spool and such can be addressed with a proper set up. Not every turbo has to have late spool.. there are other options.

The fact of the matter is that a turbo motor will make way more power reliably, actually produce torque, and if set up properly, can have no spool issues. When it comes to "getting up to speed", the turbos win hands down.

No, I was saying the turbo will always generate more torque, especially in LOW RPMS.
And yes, I want to point out that the RIGHT turbo setup will produce excellent results. I however have yet to see one IRL
They all made good power but their power band sucked nuts IMO and none lasted too long. Always poor tune, bad turbo selection or tired motor that just let go.

There are just alot of things to consider but if done right will always work out but that's rarely the case for the average end user (with a budget).

[flypig]

Quick question:
Lower final drive will slow your top end speed right? some of the track with long straight will hit over 200km. then if you lower the FD then you might stay @180-190km max.??? I did 190-200km down Eastern Creek straight (Accord Euro). So lower FD you will accelerate quicker (standstill) but lost your top end????

[saxman]

poor tune, bad turbo selection, and using damaged goods will do that...

none of that has to do with turbo error... that's all user error.

[nigs]

We don't live in a perfect world

[flypig]

Would a smaller turbo will avoid the late spool?

[saxman]

true, but it's not that difficult to select a proper turbo, inspect the motor prior to use, and have someone competent tune it. Just requires going into the process with lots of knowledge.

You can have the exact same problems going into an n/a build without the proper knowledge.

[saxman]

Would a smaller turbo will avoid the late spool?

smaller turbo = quicker spool, generally a broader torque curve, sooner peak power, but overall less power

generally at least... this is a broad generalization, but the basic concept. Doesn't work exactly like that, but more or less.

[flypig]

I suppose tracking racing is different to drag racing or someother racings (street etc) Suspension/ chasis/camber makes big different with right setup. My euro with/without coilovers - 5 SECONDS different @ Eastern Creek.
This CRX would be my fourth Honda and I found that all Hondas lack of torque & high rev engine, on the track you do drop back your RPM to approx 4000rpm sometime (coming out the corners) and you find takes so long to get the power back on till 6500-7000rpm.thats why one of my initial plan was to turbo the D engine.

[VTi_b0i]

well if u really want torque, have u considered a b20 frank conversion? relatively cheap to build, and you can get 130kw atw fairly simply...however i have heard that the blocks arent ideal for tracking as the cylindar walls are pretty thin...maybe that could be fixed tho?

[saxman]

b20 torque is nothing compared to turbo d torque and you still don't get the power band

[VTi_b0i]

but thats if he decides he wants to go turbo...
b20 has good torque for a NA 4cyl lol

[SINISTR]

wait wait wait
you're talking about torque... and giving the advantage to the n/a motors?
doesn't work like that.
forced induction makes torque. n/a honda motors do not make torque.
All of the concerns mentioned regarding turbo spool and such can be addressed with a proper set up. Not every turbo has to have late spool.. there are other options.
The fact of the matter is that a turbo motor will make way more power reliably, actually produce torque, and if set up properly, can have no spool issues. When it comes to "getting up to speed", the turbos win hands down.
I think the prices you're quoting are rediculous too. Yes, things cost more out there, however, with a D16, if you blow a motor, parts are VERY cheap. If you damage the block, they're VERY cheap to replace. Shop around before coming up with prices like that.
If you're going to be tracking the car seriously, you'll get very hands on with the motor unless money is of no object to you. In this case, the only labor costs you would have would be machine work on the internals.
What happens if you blow a turbo D catasrophically(which will happen if you're seriously tracking the motor)? Need a new block, and maybe new pistons/rods. Not that expensive.
What happens if you blow a built b18cr? Need a new block, which will cost WAY more, and then all you have is a stock motor.
There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding turbo set ups on hondas. In the end, they make way more power, for less money, with better reliability than a built n/a motor. It's simply physics.

ok, hang on...

I didn't say you wouldn't get torque in a turbo. Hell, theres plenty of it once you're on boost.

The Author of this thread got a couple quotes for both 'builds' and installations right? $14K for a D16 rebuild, turbo etc and $10K for a [straight] swap B18C.

Now in my understanding of a turbo build you're looking at decompressing the motor, forged pistons perhaps etc which equals LOWER torque 'BEFORE' boost. You cannot tell me a decompressed D16A8 will have thesame torque as a Stock D16A8???
So you can get a smaller turbo to spool faster, but as you said top end power suffers - you can't have one without the other. small turbo = small lag = small hp, big turbo = big lag = big HP.

I don't believe the prices I quote are ridiculous and im not speaking about a fully race built NA motor either as you said 'built' b18c because the Author states 10K for a Stock B18C install. if he wants a race built B18C he'll be looking closer to 20K not 10 and then YES he'll have reliability issues.

Im comparing a Built D16 with a Stock B18 and their pros and cons and money going into replacing a built D16 with another replacement Stock B18C.

In conclusion im not saying DON'T get a turbo, its maybe even worth it but has to be done properly.

To the author - pick up a copy of High Octane 2 or 3 (not sure which but think its 2 since highoctane2000 has the first b18C gen1 battle) - there is a section there of a battle between a D16 turbo vs a B18C gen1 on a track. The B18C is in a Gen1 but id say a stripped gen2 wouldn't be far off a gen2. Its a good little video - maybe that will help you choose since its showing exactly what you're looking for.