but the bolts are same tensile rating as those used on my 2 ton engine crane?
just because the are "lower" than the Honda ones, does not mean they are not suitable...
your 2 ton engine crane dosent go thru the constant movement and torsional stress that these suspension bolts do ~ Honda designs them with limits in mind but im sure this whiteline kit Or others would be a better package with proper strength bolts.
Ive asked whiteline and the only answer they can give me is that "its good enough".
That's a good point, tinkerbell, and I have heard that reasoning of having softer suspension with an extra heavy duty sway bar causing even more stress on the subframe and ultimately subframe failure. You've probably got your suspension components well balanced with each other, tinkerbell.
The other thing with the bolts is that while they may be the same as in your 2 ton engine crane, do you put your engine crane under 2 tons of force on a regular basis? The bolts on the swaybar kit, combined with unbalanced suspension components are probably pushing the mounting gear to their limits on a regular basis which leads to component failure.
Also, how does the lower tiebar help prevent subframe failure? Is it by distributing some of the forces on the mounting plates to the other side of the car so that the stress isn't all being put on one side?
the other thing i thought of was that i am running coil-overs with stiff springs...
when using a stiffer rear sway bar with stock springs, this could increase the risk of sub-frame tear out...
good point ~ ive heard also that running stock or soft springs with larger swaybars runs the same risk of ripping subframe out ~ perhaps due to the increased pivot movement of the swaybar from softer springs.
good point ~ ive heard also that running stock or soft springs with larger swaybars runs the same risk of ripping subframe out ~ perhaps due to the increased pivot movement of the swaybar from softer springs.
That is true as the stock springs do put more load on the sub frame joints where the swaybar bolts up.
Tinkerbell i notice that you are driving a DC2.. We are talking about a CIVIC and in particular the EK series. CXI's and GLI's do NOT have the structural strengthening that is required to run these bars as they do not come with ANY rear bar to start off with.
Whereas the VTI / TypeR both do. Even if they are slightly smaller in diameter.
This makes a HUGE difference.
Whiteline sell the kit as one for a civic that doesn't have a factory swaybar installed. The problem we face is that the factory car is just that FACTORY!.
If you are planning on running the car with coil overs (not factory shocks) then sure you may be able to reduce the stress on the sub frame but in a lot of cases people tend to upgrade their cars by adding the cheapest components first. aka Swaybars.
Being that these cars usually still have factory shocks and springs attached in many of the cases the bolts that are supplied by whiteline are NOT up to scratch as they are going to be under considerably more load. (If you have read the whiteline site you will notice they recommend buying an upgrade package. This is not possible for everyone.)
The bolts that i had supplied with the kit that i received (the ones that actually came) were by no means adequate for the job.
IF a car is going to be under a large amount of strain it is always best to add nyloc nuts
into the equation as they allow that extra protection from the bolt rattling free. something like this
instead of the flange nuts they supply would be better.
All that aside there was also the fact that for some reason i also recieved 12 of the Flange nuts
and only one of the nuts to bolt the actual bar to the LCA.
Also the lack of washers in the whiteline kit was also disturbing. i received a grand total of 3x12mm washers. Note that these washers were not shown on the original picture instructions that i received and were not the actual ones that were needed in the first place.
Now whether this was just a Quality issue at the time or some other act of God i have no idea i do know that this happened 3 times with my rear bar and twice with the front bar.
So before anyone says anything NO i do not believe that the whiteline kits are all that flash.
The Bars themselves are fine and work like they are supposed too but feel that a lot of people installing these products are backyarders and they have no idea about tensile strengths or the fact that gradual pressure on a specific point will over time weaken the structural integrity of an item. etc etc.
Also Tinkerbell you asked me also what i would recommend in terms of bolts. That is simple go to your local Universal Fasteners or some other bolt selling shop (hell even Bunnings) and ask for "Aircraft Grade Bolts". They have a higher load rating that most common bolts that you can buy, but DO cost a far bit more.
Ok now i have that off my chest.
/end_rant
Summary: If you are going to install anything ALWAYS make sure that you are using top quality components and the part is designed to fit EXACTLY as was designed by the factory.
the EK design sits very simiar to the EG/DC , but due the the lower control arm mount point , it looks as it would put a degree of more stress on the subframe during heavy cornering or pivoting action ( up a driveway etc).
IMO there needs to be something with the mount points closer together or add another mount point on the EK plate to counter act the "pivot"
B20VTEC - since 2002 
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Originally Posted by tinkerbell
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