Suspension suggestions?

[JohnL]

This can be cured with a variety of products.
Example: Ikeya Formula tie rod ends.

Adrian

I'd be wary of using such a product if it resulted in the centre of the rod end ('rose' style joint) being spaced further away from the steering arm than the centre of the 'ball' would be with the standard tie rod end. My reason is that you might end up with excessive twisting of the the steering arm because the tie rod end (or 'rose' joint) is mounted to the steering arm in single shear, and as a result can impart a twisting moment into the steering arm that will be stronger the further from the end of the steering arm the centre of rod end / rose joint articulation is.

If this occurs it could become a source of bump steer in itself, though in a lot of applications the steering arm will be very rigid (enough to adequately deal with the increased forces fed into it), in others it may not be rigid enough even for the standard set up.

If you look at the steering arms on 'formula' race cars or similar, you'll see that the rod ends are typically mounted in double shear at the steering arms (steering arm itself being made up from two seperate pieces spaced above and below the rod end), the purpose of which is to eliminate any twisting moment in the streering arm, and also to allow the use of a lighter weight steering arm (less metal but stiffer due to superior design). You'll also probably note that such a set up usually allows a deal of latitude in exactly at what height the rod end can be placed on / in the steering arm, adjustment of this being by means of shims or different length spacers placed above and below the rod end. The purpose of this is to allow bump steer adjustment by raising or lowering the outer end of the tie rod.

[SeverAMV]

i havent owned the car since it was first made, but from what i can tell, the original owners havent touched the suspension since it was first built. from what i can see, its still using oem shocks and springs from when it was built 18-19 years ago, and the missing chunks on the outer layer of the springs support my belief. i'll just work on one bit at a time. the coilovers should be the first step to rectifying the cause of the problem. after that i'll see what else i may need.

[JohnL]

its still using oem shocks and springs from when it was built 18-19 years ago, and the missing chunks on the outer layer of the springs support my belief. i'll just work on one bit at a time. the coilovers should be the first step to rectifying the cause of the problem. after that i'll see what else i may need.

The missing 'chunks' are just chips in the powder coating, mine has similar, not to worry. The springs on my CB7 are only a couple of years younger than your springs (just clocked up 250,000km), and both front springs are exactly the same free length as each other, as are the rear spring pair. This strongly suggests that none of the springs have sagged appreciably because it would be unlikely for both springs in each pair to sag to exactly the same degree, a testament to the quality of the OE Honda springs.

I think you're right in that if the dampers are at all suspect you should start there before thinking about anything else. You need a stable platform to be able to adequately feel whatever else the suspension may be doing.

Even if you do the time honoured test of pushing the car down hard at each corner and it feels nicely stiff and doesn't 'bounce', this is no test of the dampers. The dampers may well feel fine according to this 'test', but could still be utterly shot. When I bought my CB7 it passed this test easily and drove fine on smooth city roads at the pace I could get away with with the salesman sitting beside me, but as soon as I was alone with my new purchase on the open road at hwy speeds, and on rougher country roads it was painfully obvious the dampers were way past their use by date!

[SeverAMV]

my way of testing if my dampers were dead or not was kinda initial-d ish. you pretty much know something is wrong if you're driving on a perfectly straight and flat piece of road and the water still bounces everywhere.

and i dont think its powdercoating, unless these springs had more than 5mm of powdercoating.

[JohnL]

my way of testing if my dampers were dead or not was kinda initial-d ish. you pretty much know something is wrong if you're driving on a perfectly straight and flat piece of road and the water still bounces everywhere.

? I don't understand!

and i dont think its powdercoating, unless these springs had more than 5mm of powdercoating.

The spring coating is quite thick, not 5mm though, and I'm 99% sure it's some sort of powdercoat. It's certainly thicker than paint. If it's lifting in places and generally roughed up it might possibly give the impression of being thicker than it is(?). Peel a bit off and see.

In any case I can't see the "chunks" being depressions in the steel, flying stones etc certainly couldn't cause such damage, and not even severe corrosion is likely to be that bad (unless they'd been left in salt water for a few years!). Even considering that the springs are exposed to the elements and that the protective coating is damaged, IMO they just wouldn't stay wet long enough for more than surface rust to appear, even after 18 or so years (also considering that they are good quality steel, and good steel as a generalisation tends to corrode less than poor quality steel).

I've seen old leaf springs that have been sitting exposed in paddocks for decades, and while they'll be rusty there would be no corrosion on them even remotely close to 5mm deep, unless they were at least partially buried.

[SeverAMV]

? I don't understand!

stick a cup of water in your cup holder without a lid. if your shocks and springs are working properly, then on a straight and flat piece of road, the water should sit flat or ripple a little on imperfections on the road. in my car, it splashes at every little imperfection of road, even if it is just a 1cm high bump, or just a rock on the road.

The spring coating is quite thick, not 5mm though, and I'm 99% sure it's some sort of powdercoat. It's certainly thicker than paint. If it's lifting in places and generally roughed up it might possibly give the impression of being thicker than it is(?). Peel a bit off and see.

In any case I can't see the "chunks" being depressions in the steel, flying stones etc certainly couldn't cause such damage, and not even severe corrosion is likely to be that bad (unless they'd been left in salt water for a few years!). Even considering that the springs are exposed to the elements and that the protective coating is damaged, IMO they just wouldn't stay wet long enough for more than surface rust to appear, even after 18 or so years (also considering that they are good quality steel, and good steel as a generalisation tends to corrode less than poor quality steel).

I've seen old leaf springs that have been sitting exposed in paddocks for decades, and while they'll be rusty there would be no corrosion on them even remotely close to 5mm deep, unless they were at least partially buried.

haha, actually, it looks like someone got hungry. and im pretty sure its not powdercoating because i've peeled off a little to compare, and you can see the bits missing on the actual spring.

[JohnL]

stick a cup of water in your cup holder without a lid. if your shocks and springs are working properly, then on a straight and flat piece of road, the water should sit flat or ripple a little on imperfections on the road. in my car, it splashes at every little imperfection of road, even if it is just a 1cm high bump, or just a rock on the road.

My car doesn't even have cup holders, besides, I'm not American and wouldn't use it even if it did! But say for arguments sake I did use a cup holder, even though my dampers are in great shape they're set so stiff I'd still be spilling water at every decent bump, and there are quite a few of those around here!

I'd be surprised if your springs weren't working properly, but your water problem does sound like excessive 'wallowing' due to bad dampers.

haha, actually, it looks like someone got hungry. and im pretty sure its not powdercoating because i've peeled off a little to compare, and you can see the bits missing on the actual spring.

That does sound unusual. I wonder if the car ever lived by the ocean? Salt might have gotten under the peeling coating and caused some corrosion every time there was moisture about? Unless this were very extensive I doubt it would significantly affect the spring rate, but could concievably create stress points that might eventually lead to failure of the spring? I bought an old Fiat 124 Sports once (for the engine and gearbox), that car had lived by the ocean and was amazingly rotted, even by Fiat standards!