[Euro] Hondata Update

[Gibbo]

I think you need to read the article in full to understand it, not just small bits as yfin has posted, have a read or if I may… ill just summaries it.

“If you don’t want to make your car go fast, leave it stock what fool wouldn’t want Vtec ! People complaining about Vtec should be shoot, I would love more Vtec noise in my Euro, but i cant afford it.”

Extreme WARNING for JTune Extreme Euro Owners

26/1/2008

To Whom It May Concern:
Common feed back from a small number of JTune Extreme Euro owners are reporting an extremely disturbing sound which is experienced from approximately 3500rpm onwards until redline when accelerating hard.
This noise has been described by clients as the following:

1. • Metallic reverberation throughout the car above 3500 rpm
   
2. • Unbearable difference above 3500 rpm
   
3. • My passenger complains and needs to commonly repeat words when I accelerate hard over 3500 rpm
   
4. • The exhaust and intake growls at me like its angry above 3500 rpm
   
5. • Annoying Harmonics echo above 3500 rpm

An example of the described noise can be

downloaded here. The questionable noise starts to occur 1.3 seconds after the beginning of the example.

JTune Official Response regarding owners concerns.

After conducting research into owner’s reports we have found the exact cause of the reported noise. The described noise by owners occurs exactly at 3638rpm when throttle position is above 20% and or 5600rpm when throttle is below 20%.

The exact cause of this noise is commonly known to the Honda Performance community as "VTEC". VTEC is a perfectly normal noise, a noise which the typical Honda Performance community pays good money to experience.
VTEC engaging is when the engine changes cam profile allowing more air into the engine by increasing the distance and time which both the exhaust and intake valves are open for. VTEC on the standard Honda Accord Euro is activated at 6000rpm, from our research the majority of Honda Accord Euro owners hardly rev their car above 6000 rpm therefore never experience VTEC.

Our JTune Extreme Euro kit has been designed from day one to produce maximum possible power throughout the entire rev range. One way we achieve this is through our radical header design which allows us to lower the VTEC point considerably from the standard position. The lowered VTEC point allows us to gain massive midrange performance all the way to redline which deliveries what we consider a delightful VTEC noise.

Clients who are concerned about experiencing VTEC and are planning to purchase the JTune Extreme kit we recommended to keep driving throttle position to a minimum. For those customers who do not wish to experience the VTEC experience altogether we can disable VTEC although performance gains will be greatly reduced by more than 65%.

[johnprocter]

umm lol yfin did post a link to that.. lol

[aaronng]

It is sort of a satirical letter, trying to show off that the extreme kit is for performance, not for carrying out conversations under hard acceleration.

[Gibbo]

http://jtune.com.au/JTune-Noise.pdf

Yes he did.. lol this is the funniest thing I have ever read, Honda owners NOT wanting Vtec, but wanting performance, that’s like wanting sex with a hot super model but with out physically being with them, its just not going to happen.

[Merlin086]

I read this last week.....

I feel I must comment......

The sound file I sent to James and was attached to a email I sent him on
17th January, in regard to............

Quote:-

"It is recorded with windows up on a winding, slightly up hill section in 3rd and 4th gear, @ 60-80k's.
You can clearly hear the harmonics through the car, and the vibration in 3rd gear between 3500-4000 revs."




I was assured by James that "no-one else has complained", however the comments quoted by him regarding the noise are not mine!

The serious harmonics in my car have now been 80% rectified by a exhaust specialist spreading apart the header pipes to stop them vibrating on each other. The serious metallic vibration I believe is caused by the header pipes vibrating on the crossmember ( The header pipes I have been told have been lengthened about 15mm to prevent this.)

Apart from the metallic vibration I have been happy with the noise since the header were adjusted.

It surprises me now to find that there are complaints other than mine, having been told that everyone else is happy with the noise, and that one customer had said it was too quiet.

I find it a little misleading to select a few seconds of a 2 minute sound file of the sound of the harmonics within my car, which has now been primarily rectified, as a supposed example of Vtec and the basis of other customer complaints.



The serious metallic vibration that still occurs is only there between 3.5k's and 4k's, and I find it slightly unbelievable that this is caused by Vtec as if this is true my Vtec cuts out at 4k....lol

I frequently used Vtec, prior to any engine modifications, on a daily basis and never once experienced a serious metallic vibration.

Have to add I luv the power, and happy with the noise except fot that
3.5-4k vibration.
Car can be very stealth now, or roar when pushed.....


Merlin says.......

Some people should probably do more and say less.......

[yfin]

If I was a customer who had metalic vibrations through the cabin from 3500rpm onwards I would want it fixed as it can be annoying as hell.

I would also be insulted if the solution was an open letter that said this is completely normal and to use less than 20% throttle or turn off VTEC permanently.

As others have said this product was marketed for the professional crowd - not rev heads. The letter does not address the concerns raised by people who are not happy with the noise levels and downplays the complaints by effectively saying customers are just ignorant of the sound of VTEC.

Nice way to treat customers.

..........

Sadly in today’s world gone are the days of loud exhaust systems as the law is being more and more tough, these days people opted for stealth installations. Our system has a few major primary goals, maximum power, in both mid range and up top, maximum drive ability, and increase fuel economy and most of all not overly louder than stock.

[Gibbo]

Sound recording of the JTune Euro being noised tested by the EPA – taken from www.jtune.com.au/news.html

Idle = 68db
2000 rpm = 82db
3000 rpm = 83db
4500 rpm = 85db

Video File - http://www.jtune.com.au/jtune_0004.wmv

Passes with flying colours, if the EPA is happy with the noise I can’t see why most owners wouldn’t be. Credit for JTune to inform clients of there finding and results, if only I could afford an extreme kit, I’m waiting for a group buy or something!

[yfin]

Firstly it is not just noise - it is vibrations in the vehicle. Do you think the EPA measure that?

Secondly, at what throttle level is the 4500rpm measure taken? As the letter says the complaints of noise relate to more than 20% throttle.

[Gibbo]

I guess the moral to this is if you don’t like it well don’t buy, but then again yfin you sold your Euro for a Holden, although clearly Merlin086 and LUXURO enjoy there kit, read here for more.

http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=1747

Now lets arrange a group buy !

[EUR003act]

Firstly it is not just noise - it is vibrations in the vehicle. Do you think the EPA measure that?

Secondly, at what throttle level is the 4500rpm measure taken? As the letter says the complaints of noise relate to more than 20% throttle.

ill tell you this now:

the EPA do not WOT up to 4500rpm.... its a slow gradual depression of the pedal... from practical testing in my car, once at 4500rpm, keeping it there is anywhere between 10-20% throttle...

so in answer to yfin, im pretty much certain that 85db wouldnt be with induction noise... and yes, cabin vibrations are very annoying!

since changing to my RBC intake now with SRI im getting a slight vibration/drone from 2400-2600rpm... in every gear when more than 20% throttle at first i liked it, now its annoying, especially since 102km/hr in 6th gear is smack on 2500rpm... im working on changing the iintake/positioning soon

[jimmeh]

Euro owners sound like s2k owners…. A pain in the ass, if you don’t want Vtec go buy a Holden like yfin

[yfin]

Euro owners sound like s2k owners…. A pain in the ass, if you don’t want Vtec go buy a Holden like yfin

Yeah Euro owners can be fussy that is very true.

But paying $5000 for the extreme kit is a lot of cash! So people are going to expect that there will be no annoying vibrations or harmonics - or at least such complaints to be taken seriously. Anyway - I think the letter is a joke, it just implies existing customers are ignorant of the sound of VTEC.