lol yep... but im not paying another $4000-$5000 for ecu / harness / tuning for another 5-10kw... lol
It'd be a lot more than 5-10 kw. On a euro with just intake header exhaust gains are more like 10-15kw at the wheels (with only a piggy back ecu that can't even control VTC). So with your mods the gains would be even greater and with a stand alone ecu even greater again.
You've spent roughly 10k on the engine. With your current mods you're reading about 140-145kw on the dyno your using. By changing the head you might bring that to 145-155kw. I just don't see how the stock ecu is going to cope with the change in cam profiles. The car is likely to run pretty rough (especially at VTEC engagement) and your definitely not going to get the most out of all the mods you've made.
As a point of reference I've seen a few DC5R's with Intake, header, exhaust go from about 120-125kw atw to 140kw atw when tuned with a standalone, fully tuneable ecu.
I'd say with a good ecu you would have been making over 155kw before the head swap. After the head swap with no ecu tuning I'm honestly doubtful it'll be much higher than that.
This is the same logic I've used for my car... I've done I/H/E/Cat lightweight flywheel/clutch and won't be doing any more performance mods untill I can afford a decent ecu to tune it. I know there's a lot more power to be made with the mods I already have with a decent tune. I've always thought ECU tuning was the most critical part of the package when it comes to making power. It just seams odd to me that you've got so many really nice parts but won't be truley taking advantage of them?
What do some of the more experienced guys think about this?
How about the traders that specialise in tuning, what's your honest opinion?
I agree with what Chris is saying but then I come from a turbo background where tuning is more important.. well higher gains from it anyway. I guess when your talking about gains of only 10-15kw from tuning, people aren't as keen to fork out for it.. For the OP maybe it's something you can look at as the next step when your looking to spend more money.
I wanted to ask as a side note, whats the capability of the standard ECU to be flash tuned with these mods?
I agree with what Chris is saying but then I come from a turbo background where tuning is more important.. well higher gains from it anyway. I guess when your talking about gains of only 10-15kw from tuning, people aren't as keen to fork out for it.. For the OP maybe it's something you can look at as the next step when your looking to spend more money.
I wanted to ask as a side note, whats the capability of the standard ECU to be flash tuned with these mods?
You're right, there's less gains to be had when tuning NA, but there's also a lot less gains when it comes to boltons. There's just less power overall. But percentage wise ECU still offers the biggest gains on a well modified NA car (as far as I know.
I just hope there's an ecu planned for this car in the future
I was under the impression there was no proper tuning option for the Euro.
that the current ecu tuning options: 1. Kill off VSA Aircon Trip etc
2. Get unlearned by the master factory ECU.
Im hoping im wrong with this assessment.
I have the Jtune mild flash with a 5000 rpm vtec and a 98 ron map and im hoping ill get decent gains with more bolts ons. Certianly my car does seem to have responded well to I/H/E/Cat at this stage. Im hoping RBC, heatshield gasket and maybe pulleys will push it along.
But it will be very interesting to see what justin gets with this groundbreaking and awesome mod! He can always tun later if its a cost effective and reliable method.
I went to the modded XR5 Turbo with Mods - the dark side.....BOOOOST!
would emanage ultimate running piggyback be more suitable in his case?
It would definitely help. You can get an emanage ultimate installed and tuned for around $1500-$2000
Piggybacks aren't as flexible or as precise as many of the stand alone ecu's and are generally for cars with more basic bolt-on mods. I'm not sure how it would handle a new head/cams but it's something worth looking into.
Originally Posted by Suntzu
I was under the impression there was no proper tuning option for the Euro.
that the current ecu tuning options: 1. Kill off VSA Aircon Trip etc
2. Get unlearned by the master factory ECU.
Im hoping im wrong with this assessment.
Not entirely true. There are two definite standalone ecu options that I know of:
Efi Euro1 with drive-by-wire module. AKmotorworks is a trader that deals/tunes EFi ecu's. There used on a lot of race cars and have some great high-end features. For this ecu you'd be looking at $3000-3500 fitted and tuned. You also won't lose any capabilities like VSA, dash, aircon.
Motec M400 with optional drive-by-wire and VTC compatability. Most tuners should be able to work with Motec and it's one of the best ecu's on the market (extremely precise and a whole bunch of features). This one will set you back about $5000 installed and tuned.
Piggyback wise there is another two:
Emanage ultimate: forum member ALN has this ecu and has experienced no problems with the factory ECU relearning. This is a step above a VAFC or standard emanage and has somehow managed to get around the relearning. Has the capability to change VTEC point and you can buy a greddy V-manage computer to play with the VTC (works in conjunction with the ultimate). This one is about $1500 installed and tuned.
Haltech interceptor: I've emailed the guys at haltech and they have confirmed that this works on a euro and have installed one on a euro in the past. They said gains were 12-15kw atw on a fairly stock car. Unlike the emanage ultimate you can't change vtec point, but it's just as good as the ultimate in every other respect. Once again you should be able to get this one installed and tuned for $1500-$2000.
Ecu's are something I've been looking into for the past couple of years, and so far the Efi is the most desirable in terms of features vs. cost. Still I can't bring myself to spend $3000 and I'm waiting for either a second hand EFi or a new product to come onto the market at a more reasonable price.
So yea, there's definitely a number of options out there. I'm not sure why more of the euro/TSX guys haven't gone ahead and used some of these.
Originally Posted by krogoth
lol
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