NEW 2009 Euro Luxury Auto Pinging

[MKI4EVA]

Also re the gearbox noise being louder when warm as compared to cold, I am yet to see a gearbox issue especially in an automatic get better with warmth, the warmer gearbox fluid is more viscous and thus lends itself to increasing the chances of noise especially with regards to something that is not picked up by the magical sensors that seemed to be so overly relied on these days...

The lose of power in relation to engine pinging is marginal unless you are talking peak power knock/pinging. The only way you will notice it is on a dyno, the seat of the pants especially in a N/A car will be virtually undetectable...

very good points there mate...........

[unity]

Rattling parcel shelf and rattling speaker requires dynamat to deaden the vibrations. Don't think the dealer will do that for you under warranty. I have had them try to fix door rattles before and they just made it worse because each time they take the door panel off, the clips loosen up.

Surely you could pay them a few dollars for some new clips and hopefully that would solve the problem. Or is it not that simple?

[aaronng]

Surely you could pay them a few dollars for some new clips and hopefully that would solve the problem. Or is it not that simple?

You can try. I just brought my car in, told them there was a door rattle, they test drove and confirmed it, took off door panel and tightened something up, returned the car and then after a few weeks, more rattles than it originally had.

[unity]

You can try. I just brought my car in, told them there was a door rattle, they test drove and confirmed it, took off door panel and tightened something up, returned the car and then after a few weeks, more rattles than it originally had.

I have my car in for an alignment next week. I'll ask them how much they would charge for brand new clips and will post on here when I find out.

[mr ©harisma]

You can try. I just brought my car in, told them there was a door rattle, they test drove and confirmed it, took off door panel and tightened something up, returned the car and then after a few weeks, more rattles than it originally had.

You should take it off yourself. Problem is that their are cords hanging in your doors for lights, window etc and they will rattle against the trim. As you mentioned before, a $30 sheet of dynamat xtreme will stop anything from rattling as all the wiring will be stuck down. Will also improve road noise and mid bass from your mids

[aaronng]

They did the dynamat, but something else came loose.

[unity]

They did the dynamat, but something else came loose.

Did the dealer do the dynamat?

[aaronng]

Did the dealer do the dynamat?

Yup, there was a TSB and all they did was a narrow strip of dynamat-like material which went between the wiring and the door.

[mr ©harisma]

They did the dynamat, but something else came loose.

Ha that's no good dude.

With my door trims on the Bora I had them off for a couple of hours with a nice tube of silicone, foam and liquid nails. Gave it a bang and anything loose that shouldn't be got nailed. Any possible gaps where siliconed. Dynamated the door and did the same with any wires etc that where loose. Even wrapped the speaker wire in the door with foam. Even with the Sd'er, the door wires may rattle on the trim unless they are secured down.

Finished all that had them back on and it still did it, found it was the door light ( which I took out ). Bit more silicone and it was ok. My car was 5 years old when I did that ( 2001 Model ), you shouldn't really have to do it for a newish car like yours.

[Omotesando]

Ok so are they still saying its a fuel issue???

I will drop it back to Honda to have the other issues addressed when they come up with a solution. Maybe I should email them today...

Also Ometesando, yes I have tried what you have said and also there is no power cut feeling and it DOES make the sound quite often when going up hills, well it does in my case. As it stands, the sound is VERY much like pinging and being auto where the problem appears to be compared to manual, the incorrect gear selection results in load being placed on the engine as there is no "free spinning of the engine as both gearbox and engine are continually mated", thus it "could be" a combination of issues, ie the gear selection program is not properly matched to the ecu mapping. Also as for the fail safe mode, if the noise is within specs or the knock sensor is not located well enough to pick this up that will not happen, I am yet to see a factory sensor do an exception job of knock detection...

Also re the gearbox noise being louder when warm as compared to cold, I am yet to see a gearbox issue especially in an automatic get better with warmth, the warmer gearbox fluid is more viscous and thus lends itself to increasing the chances of noise especially with regards to something that is not picked up by the magical sensors that seemed to be so overly relied on these days...

I am sure if I had the time, the facilties including a dyno I could more than likely isolate the problem, but should I...I think not.

Well first of all if there is no ascertainable, seat of the pants power-cut, that is a good indication that it is not engine pinging. I disagree though that you haven't experienced Knock Sensors that do not do their job properly. How do you know, if you haven't put the car on the Dyno? In your and others case, the suspected pinging/detonation is happening at low revs. There is absolutely no way that knock sensors do not detect low-mid rpm range knocking 100% accurately. Only at about say 4000-5000rpm or above do they become a bit confused by other noise but even then, these days the redesigned filter system makes them reliable even in the higher rpms. When I was dyno tuning my performane car before, the stock Knock sensor, my PowerFC computer read-out, also on the Dyno - all correlated. So, I would recommend that you should ask Honda to pay for a Dyno session just to isolate this problem.


Also contrary to what you said, Auto gearboxes get better when warmer. The lower Viscosity of oil or in Auto Fluid's case, is because at low temperature they can flow enough to protect the moving metallic parts. At lower temps, the thinner fluid makes it susceptible for metal to contact metal with the thin film, thus creating 'clunking' noises. At normal warmer temp, the high oil viscosity is operating in its normal range, with a thicker film that protects metal from metal as it should, whereas with cold start up the emphasis is on as fast a flow of oil film as possible. Therefore it is impossible that in an auto gearbox it will make more noise when warmer. You're arguing based on your understanding of thicker viscosity at higher temp relative to colder temp, but in reality the warmer performance is the perfect viscosity at normal operating range. The only scenario I can think of when higher viscosity gearbox oil doesn't work too well in a gearbox is when it is too thick in a manual gearbox, where the synchros makes it hard to compress the oil film and change into another gear.

I honestly think you should put it on a dyno to make sure if it is even pinging or not, as it is fairly conclusive plus there are manual microphone equipment (not knock sensor) that can confirm it further. Its only around $100-120 and on dyno days its barely $50-70!

[aaronng]

Oils get thinner when warmed up.

[Omotesando]

Oils get thinner when warmed up.

That isn't what I meant at all.

With the Multigrade oil that we use today, the Viscosity rating is self adjusted for different operating temperatures. Compared to an SAE Grade oil, which as you said gets thinner when warmed, with the Multi-grade especially synthetic oils with wide-ranging Winter vs Warm rating (eg. 5W-40), the oil's specification ensures that it adjusts itself thin enough for cold start up, whereas instead of thinning it will thicken up enough relatively to still keep protecting the metal.