i dont think u guys understand it... its a da9 thing.. u physically dont have the room to run shrouds and other BS. its not like egs/ek/dc/etc. they have heaps of room to put a big manifold in and still keep atleast one stock thermo. where our ones u cant even use say a ugr manifold because u will loose atleast one manifold without exhaust and or intake... its not a matter of shroud vs. no shroud and cheap vs. expensive thermos its all about room... mooshie would back me up on this aswell. i know ive just been through it