> and when you say tear out the subframe, is that under normal use or hard/track driving?

on civics, anything more than a 14mm (VTi spec) rear sway will crack the subframe with regular driving.

Nick.

PS. an ASR brace and an ITR 22m rear sway bar is the hot ticket IMHO. They're available as a complete kit with all the little fiddly bits, which is a bonus.

PPS. I believe the ASR brace in now available in black, if you want to avoid unwanted attention.