NEW 2009 Euro Luxury Auto Pinging

[unity]

This guy from honda is talking crap. He says " We don't know what the issue is, as yet,"

"But the good news is that we had an issue, and there is a counter- measure. It's an electronic or ECU issue, not a mechanical issue."

Firstly, he says they don't know what the issue is. Then secondly, he goes on to say it's an electronic or ECU issue. How is it possible to fix a problem 100% if you don't know what the issue is ? It may be entirely possible the issue may arise again if they haven't found the source of the issue.

I'd like to know exactly how they came up with this fix. Did they actually study the cars concerned in extensive detail to find a common cause then compare it in the same extensive detail to a known CU2 car that is not reporting this issue. There are thousands of different parameters that they can study on the car and unless they have done detailed analysis on everyones cars i wouldn't feel entirely 100% confident they have the solution.

There is a comments section associated with that article. Why doesn't every one with the problem write in to say their car is affected then everyone will get a true picture as to how extensive this problem is. It may even open Honda's eyes and make them realise it's much more extensive than they are reporting. Also it's a very public domain and I'm sure Honda won't want to see too much bad publicity there.

[buddah51au]

This guy from honda is talking crap. He says " We don't know what the issue is, as yet,"

"But the good news is that we had an issue, and there is a counter- measure. It's an electronic or ECU issue, not a mechanical issue."

Firstly, he says they don't know what the issue is. Then secondly, he goes on to say it's an electronic or ECU issue. How is it possible to fix a problem 100% if you don't know what the issue is ? It may be entirely possible the issue may arise again if they haven't found the source of the issue.

I'd like to know exactly how they came up with this fix. Did they actually study the cars concerned in extensive detail to find a common cause then compare it in the same extensive detail to a known CU2 car that is not reporting this issue. There are thousands of different parameters that they can study on the car and unless they have done detailed analysis on everyones cars i wouldn't feel entirely 100% confident they have the solution.

There is a comments section associated with that article. Why doesn't every one with the problem write in to say their car is affected then everyone will get a true picture as to how extensive this problem is. It may even open Honda's eyes and make them realise it's much more extensive than they are reporting. Also it's a very public domain and I'm sure Honda won't want to see too much bad publicity there.

Some people make me laugh, did you ever think that the guy who did the interview does not know what the problem is? Lets just wait & see what the outcome is before criticizing people unjustifiably. If the countermeasure they are talking about does not rectify the problem people can complain all they like, but until that time we need to be patient.

Personally, I think the problem is so minor I am not concerned about it in any way. From your details you own a 2007 Euro which is not effected, so i can't see what your beef is.

[unity]

Some people make me laugh, did you ever think that the guy who did the interview does not know what the problem is? Lets just wait & see what the outcome is before criticizing people unjustifiably. If the countermeasure they are talking about does not rectify the problem people can complain all they like, but until that time we need to be patient.

Personally, I think the problem is so minor I am not concerned about it in any way. From your details you own a 2007 Euro which is not effected, so i can't see what your beef is.

I know my car is not affected. But I have had to deal with HA with other issues and their service is poor. It appears this guy is trying to covering up the extent of the number of cases.

By saying 60 people maximum are affected he is implying that the problem is minor and not that widespead. Whilst the problem might be minor may mislead future buyers into believing that if they were to buy a new Accord Euro today then there will be a very, very small probability they will buy a pinging car. Whereas if he was to state that there are actually 500 (this is a hypothetical number) cars out there with the problem then a prospective buyer would probably think twice before they buy the car just incase they ended up with a pinging car.

My point is that I'm sure that more than 60 cars out there have this problem. And I'm sure Honda and Honda dealers have had more than 60 reports of problem from the owners.

[buddah51au]

I know my car is not affected. But I have had to deal with HA with other issues and their service is poor. This guy is blantantly covering up the extent of the number of cases. I can't stand people who are dishonest.

By saying 60 people maximum are affected he is implying that the problem is minor and not that widespead. Whilst the problem might be minor he is deceiving future buyers into believing that if they were to buy a new Accord Euro today then there will be a very, very small probability they will buy a pinging car. Whereas if he was to state that there are actually 500 (this is a hypothetical number) cars out there with the problem then a prospective buyer would probably think twice before they buy the car just incase they ended up with a pinging car.

My point is that I'm sure that more than 60 cars out there have this problem. And I'm sure Honda and Honda dealers have had more than 60 reports of problem from the owners.

I have no facts or figures on the number of cars effected & i have a CU2 Auto.

I am also certain you have no ideas on the number of cars effected & speculation is just that.

We should deal with facts only, anything else is unhelpful to everyone. The fact I can report is I personally know of 4 CU2 Auto's & mine is the only 1 effected, to an extent it is so minor that it presents no concern to me.

Another important fact is only a very small percentage of Honda Owners use this forum & you rarely hear from a person who has no problems. I would also go as far as to say there is a high percentage of owners who don't even know this forum exists, add to that the number of people that don't have a computer or internet access.

This forum would be so much better if people dealt with facts only, and had qualifications to back up there comments.

[unity]

We should deal with facts only, anything else is unhelpful to everyone. The fact I can report is I personally know of 4 CU2 Auto's & mine is the only 1 effected, to an extent it is so minor that it presents no concern to me.

Another important fact is only a very small percentage of Honda Owners use this forum & you rarely hear from a person who has no problems. I would also go as far as to say there is a high percentage of owners who don't even know this forum exists, add to that the number of people that don't have a computer or internet access.

Exactly my point. In your own circle 25% of cars have the problem. This forum represents a very small number of total owners out there. There would have to be almost 60 people on here that have reported the problem. Therefore it's much more wide spread than 60 cases.

If you can see through HA smoke screen then you can extrapolate the data and see the problem is probably more widespread than they are reporting. At the end of the day who wants to purchase anything, especially a car that has a potential fault or problem.

[unity]

So buddad51au, you have been involved with this thread from the start and have read accounts from many other owners on here with the so called problem. Considering that people on this forum only make up a tiny percentage of all Accord Euro owners out there, do you believe the guy from HA when he says

"It's a handful of cars. We've sold 9000 or 10,000 Euros in the past year and it's around 60 vehicles maximum."

Does any one believe the above comment?

[buddah51au]

Exactly my point. In your own circle 25% of cars have the problem. This forum represents a very small number of total owners out there. There would have to be almost 60 people on here that have reported the problem. Therefore it's much more wide spread than 60 cases.

If you can cut through HA crap then you can extrapolate the data and see the problem is much more widespread than they are reporting. At the end of the day who wants to purchase anything, especially a car that has a potential fault or problem.

At the end of the day i would buy another Euro tomorrow, there is nothing else in the market that comes close to it for value.

Fact, as of April 20 the dealership i am involved with has sold 382 CU2 Autos with 5 reported cases. that equates to slightly under 1.5% so where you get the figure of 25% from is beyond my imagination. whether there are 60 cars or 600 cars is irrelevent as long as a solution is found.
Oh, and for your information I don't work for the dealer so those figures are unbiased and factual. I do know the staff there well and we have discussed this problem in depth. We also went to the extent of having a CU2 on a Dyno for 3 hours trying to replicate & diagnose this problem. We were unable to hear the so called pinging with the bonnet raised due to drive train noise. It can only be heard inside the car with the radio & fan off and we were not able to duplicate it under repeatable engine loads or RPM. It is a very strange problem & definitely not pre ignition.

After almost 40 years in the Motor Trade I think I know a little bit, my personal opinion is there are very few cars in the market place that can match Honda for Build Quality and Reliability, Regardless of the price range of a given vehicle.

[nebt]

Honda for Build Quality and Reliability[/QUOTE]

This is very true. It's why our family keeps buying Honda cars (have 3 atm) because their build quality and reliability are exceptional especially considering the price.

[unity]

whether there are 60 cars or 600 cars is irrelevent as long as a solution is found.

I agree with a lot of what you say and I belive Honda make exceptional cars for their value, and I know you have a lot more experience and knowledge about cars than what I do.

What I am questioning is the honesty of HA to come out with the statement and figures that they have put out in the public domain. I honestly think they are under quoting the true figures. And it's in their interest to do so. It's coming to the end of year sales and I'm sure that they are expecting to unload a heap of new Euros between now and the end of the financial year. If they were to come out with a much larger figure that would no doubt put potential sales of the CU2 in coming months in jeopardy. And who ever likes to come out and publically show their branded product in a bad light. Hence the very conservative figure they have put out in that report.

At the end of the day one would like to think that when we communicate with HA that they will be honest and upfront in their communication

[aaronng]

Don't forget the easy $60k+ price tag for a V6 CU2 on the road, going on their current pricing.
Soooooooo many better cars out there for that price.

What can you get for $60k with a 3.5L or larger V6, other than an Aurion, Commodore, Falcon and Magna? Assume the buyer is oldish (with the 60k cash) and want an NA engine (or a Saab/Volvo turbo), so turbo pocket rockets are out of the question.

[buddah51au]

I agree with a lot of what you say and I belive Honda make exceptional cars for their value, and I know you have a lot more experience and knowledge about cars than what I do.

What I am questioning is the honesty of HA to come out with the statement and figures that they have put out in the public domain. I honestly think they are under quoting the true figures. And it's in their interest to do so. It's coming to the end of year sales and I'm sure that they are expecting to unload a heap of new Euros between now and the end of the financial year. If they were to come out with a much larger figure that would no doubt put potential sales of the CU2 in coming months in jeopardy. And who ever likes to come out and publically show their branded product in a bad light. Hence the very conservative figure they have put out in that report.

At the end of the day one would like to think that when we communicate with HA that they will be honest and upfront in their communication

Let me try ta answer that as honestly as i can after years of experience. It is very hard to communicate with anyone from Honda Australia, or from any other Motor Vehicle Manufacturer for that matter. The primary reason is due to high staff turn over which has always been the case in the motor industry. Very few people stay in 1 position for long periods. The primary reason for this is it has always been a low paying trade to be involved in and people are always on the lookout for greener pastures.

The same goes when dealing with dealerships, people don't stay in a given workshop for long. Dealerships themselves are generally regarded to be at the bottom level of the pay scale for mechanics, so turnover is quite high, that is the reason for the current trend towards Asian Mechanics in Dealerships. Any Business is only as good as the people working for that business, when staff turnover is high it is very hard to build and maintain a reputable business.

As for people being up front and honest with their customers, I have no doubt they try to be, but you are often dealing with a different person each time, therefore previous conversations with a customer are unknown.

Unfortunately, that is the nature of the Motor Trade. I guess i have a big advantage over most other people in that I have the knowledge and know how to service & diagnose problems with my own vehicles. Sure the would be some manufacturers who would be unhappy about that and possibly even try to void warranty to me for that reason, but legally i know where i stand. This experience also allows me to know what is a detrimental problem and what is not, and I have seen some classics over the years even on high end vehicles.

My view is the Honda Accord from the late 80"s on has been the best car in their class ( with the possible exception of 98 to 03 when we only had the Thai Accord imported here). While there is no such thing as a perfect car regardless of price, there have been very few, if any major problems with Accords (pre 98) or Euro's (post 03). I have seen many of the earlier accords with well over 400,000km without major problems & I believe Euro's will deliver the same longevity (providing they are treated properly & serviced regularly....beyond what is recommended in the service book )

This Current so called Pinging Issue is no doubt an annoying and frustrating problem to some & I hope it gets sorted out. I firmly believe it is not a detrimental problem & I have no concerns about it effecting the longevity of my vehicle. Regardless of the current problem my advice to people in the market for this class of car is Nothing Comes Close to the Euro including the Mazda 6. A bigger statement is I personally rate the Euro in front of a 4 cly 3 series BMW, Audi A4 & Lexus IS250. I know ther will be lots of disagreements with that last comment but so be it.

[unity]

Let me try ta answer that as honestly as i can after years of experience. It is very hard to communicate with anyone from Honda Australia, or from any other Motor Vehicle Manufacturer for that matter. The primary reason is due to high staff turn over which has always been the case in the motor industry. Very few people stay in 1 position for long periods. The primary reason for this is it has always been a low paying trade to be involved in and people are always on the lookout for greener pastures.

The same goes when dealing with dealerships, people don't stay in a given workshop for long. Dealerships themselves are generally regarded to be at the bottom level of the pay scale for mechanics, so turnover is quite high, that is the reason for the current trend towards Asian Mechanics in Dealerships. Any Business is only as good as the people working for that business, when staff turnover is high it is very hard to build and maintain a reputable business.

As for people being up front and honest with their customers, I have no doubt they try to be, but you are often dealing with a different person each time, therefore previous conversations with a customer are unknown.

Unfortunately, that is the nature of the Motor Trade. I guess i have a big advantage over most other people in that I have the knowledge and know how to service & diagnose problems with my own vehicles. Sure the would be some manufacturers who would be unhappy about that and possibly even try to void warranty to me for that reason, but legally i know where i stand. This experience also allows me to know what is a detrimental problem and what is not, and I have seen some classics over the years even on high end vehicles.

My view is the Honda Accord from the late 80"s on has been the best car in their class ( with the possible exception of 98 to 03 when we only had the Thai Accord imported here). While there is no such thing as a perfect car regardless of price, there have been very few, if any major problems with Accords (pre 98) or Euro's (post 03). I have seen many of the earlier accords with well over 400,000km without major problems & I believe Euro's will deliver the same longevity (providing they are treated properly & serviced regularly....beyond what is recommended in the service book )

This Current so called Pinging Issue is no doubt an annoying and frustrating problem to some & I hope it gets sorted out. I firmly believe it is not a detrimental problem & I have no concerns about it effecting the longevity of my vehicle. Regardless of the current problem my advice to people in the market for this class of car is Nothing Comes Close to the Euro including the Mazda 6. A bigger statement is I personally rate the Euro in front of a 4 cly 3 series BMW, Audi A4 & Lexus IS250. I know ther will be lots of disagreements with that last comment but so be it.

Good points there. Let's hope for everyones sake there is a happy ending for all.
It's so true that almost every time you have to contact HA or the dealership you end up having to speak to someone new. In my case the first time I had to call my dealership with a concern the sales person that had sold me my car had already left.
Where it gets most frustrating for me is that I am in a job whereby I'm dealing with the public all the time. I set my standards high when it comes to providing customer service. It's so annoying when you get a level of customer service that is way below the level of service that you yourself would have provided to that person if they had been your customer.