Lets Talk d-series

[will13]

If you MUST mod your D then please do it for irrational passion and amusement, not for 'power'.

Out of interest though, since I have a D16Y1 and a B16A, how would you plan to make approximately 90kw atw on a SOHC D, assuming that the B16A2 would make approximately that much power in stock form? Full head build + bolt-ons?



The problem here is that a D will cost you a few hundred dollars, a value matched by a single after market camshaft which might fetch you all of 2kw atw?
Again I don't want to be forceful - I love the D's, but the 'no-brainer' here would no doubt be to just splash out another $1k and get the B so that you have a stock motor, not tampered with, and with huge potential by comparison (for when you inevitably need more power).
Furthermore, for $5000 you'd probably be looking at a B18C2 conversion which is stock 125kw, has better gear ratios than a D, and more torque to boot. Or you could do a B16A2 with I/H/E.
IMO either of those B options would give a $4k 100kw D series a good run for it's money - the only problem is that by this stage the D-user is running out of options and needs to spend even larger amounts of money to get those pissy gains from serious mods, compared to the B-user who has various/more worthy options due to the stock B performance.


Like I said, only build D's for fun. I've done CAI and header on mine for $370 so far

Out of interest though, since I have a D16Y1 and a B16A, how would you plan to make approximately 90kw atw on a SOHC D, assuming that the B16A2 would make approximately that much power in stock form? Full head build + bolt-ons?

When i said this :

I can spend less than what it costs for a swap and be making the same power as a stock b16a2, the only real difference is that i have lower power ceiling than the B.

My point was that whether I spent $3000 on a D, or $3000 on a B16A2 swap, I'd end up with the same power. 100fwkw can be made with a D for that amount of money, both with and without turbo. cheaper if you remove labour costs (for those that can do some of it themselves)

The scarceness of built D's in australia seems to give people the impression that its mightily expensive to build one. It's not. The parts you need just happen to be less common, thus you need to look a bit harder.

You won't get the bang for buck that you would get with a B, but again, for me, its about seeing what I can do with it before moving on.

Furthermore, for $5000 you'd probably be looking at a B18C2 conversion which is stock 125kw, has better gear ratios than a D, and more torque to boot. Or you could do a B16A2 with I/H/E.

One thing that I think most people can relate to, is that $5000 is a lot of money. As stated previously, I'd rather not blow $5000 in one hit and then have nothing left.

If slowly modding a D, bit by bit, makes it affordable for me to build an engine NOW, then I'll do it. I'm sure beeza probably feels the same way - i mean hes building the y7 or a y4 i think? + its auto! All to satisfy the need to know what it can do, how far he can take it while its affordable, rather than having to wait and save up.

Look at it like this, if you want to go with the usual stuff like i/h/e, cam, ecu, tune

Buying an n/a D = $300 for the motor, + $3k tops in mods. Add another $2k if you add turbo

Total cost = $3300-$5300

Buying a b16/18 = $2500 - $4800 for motor, + $4k in mods, if not more.

Total cost = $6500 - $8800

Being affordable at present, and having to save for 6-12 months and living off fck all afterwards just so happens to be a difference that acts as a determining factor for some.

Now...

how would you plan to make approximately 90kw atw on a SOHC D, assuming that the B16A2 would make approximately that much power in stock form? Full head build + bolt-ons?

i/h/e + cam + ecu/tune + high comp pistons.

In total, all that is costing me $2300 (give or take). Surprisingly the majority of it in i/h/e, admittedly im not sure how much will be spent in tuning. As little as possible im hoping.

Keep an eye on my build thread for something more accurate as time goes by

I think JasonGilholme said it earlier, having fun doesnt mean being the fastest...I know im enjoying what I'm doing, and I'm learning alot in the process because it requires a bit more research into how things work, rather just reading through a B swap faq.

Dougie, sorry for replying to your post with a novel lol.

[Timmy_B]

I think JasonGilholme said it earlier, having fun doesnt mean being the fastest...I know im enjoying what I'm doing, and I'm learning alot in the process because it requires a bit more research into how things work, rather just reading through a B swap faq.

.

That so true, as long as your having fun doing it and want to experience the joy of building a motor.
Keep the D thread bout D's

[Killa From Manila]

$10 on a 100kw b series beating a 100kw d series

[will13]

$10 on it not being about who wins?

[Killa From Manila]

well then lol at building an na 100kw d series and not being able to beat a 100kw b series. its not all about power what about torque and gearing?

[will13]

well obviously the b has the best of both worlds there. but AGAIN

its not about the D being able to beat B/K/F/H

its about learning what you can do, how far you can push things. I'm not really sure how many times people need to say it (not having a go at you)

Everyone's seen the B series and what it can do, nor do i care about who wins between a B and a built D. in truth, it would be cool to see, but thats not what im all about when i say im going to build a D.

[GSi_PSi]

lol. you want a 100kw d series for fun??... in all if your building an engine whats the point of going thru all that hard work and getting shitty results. D series was never intended for performance, so why try make it something its not.? There is no Spoon D series or Mugen D series. IMHO add I/H/E for fun and call it a day.

[will13]

lol. you want a 100kw d series for fun??... in all if your building an engine whats the point of going thru all that hard work and getting shitty results. D series was never intended for performance, so why try make it something its not.? There is no Spoon D series or Mugen D series. IMHO add I/H/E for fun and call it a day.

you want a 100kw d series for fun??

Yes, i do

D series was never intended for performance, so why try make it something its not.?

the challenge of it, as well as the learning experience. stop hating on people that wanna try something different, theres nothing wrong with it

Seriously, why bring your b series talk into a d series thread

[JasonGilholme]

stop hating on people that wanna try something different, theres nothing wrong with it

They hate on people that want to be different because they're all sheep. hehe.

ADDITION: At the end of the day, most people will have a B series engine because it is a good platform. I can understand that, but theres no reason for people to be hating on others that want to play with what they've got.

Once again, i ask the same question: "Why don't these people upgrade there B to a K rather then going high comp NA/turbo??"

or are you happy with what you've got already (just like these D series people here??)

[GSi_PSi]

Fair enough, i wanna see a 100kw D16a non-turbo for less than a b16a swap then ill take back all my comments...
D series owners love talking about how they can build this B series killer and always sitting there defending it. Why not try actually doing it, then you can talk and then defend it with your setup.. Dont try and come up with oh this D16 turbo will easily make that much power... cause this is the all motor section...
Just curious what does a D16a nonvtec make at the wheels?. and what about a D16y8 vtec ?

[xtercii]

hahah just let them try what they wanna do, it doesn't harm anyone...

but in saying that I remembmer the 1.6 D ranging from 88kw to 92kw, spending 3k and expecting them to match b16a (118kw) is a bit unrealistic. We are talking about nearly 30kw increase, and 10kw per $1k is big number for any 4 bangers. I'd love to see one and proven wrong though...

[TheSaint]

this is exactly why im building a D at the moment instead of the usual B's that i work on

im studying so i need to just make do with having fun with a smaller engine

once i get back into the work force i will move back up to B or K

but hell as long as im enjoying it i dont care really

For me, I just want to know what i can get out of it. I'm not spending loads of money, just a little here and there

and for those that keep coming into the d series thread and telling us to get B's...do you find us telling you to go get K20's instead? It's the same thing.

And if you say "but a b is actually fast"...its all relative. a turbo D can smoke a B. why dont we all go and do F20C / H22 / K20/4 conversions instead?

Rather than spending $3000 straight up for a swap, spending $300 here and there every now and then makes it affordable to do some mods NOW.

I can spend less than what it costs for a swap and be making the same power as a stock b16a2, the only real difference is that i have lower power ceiling than the B.

B series has been done to death in this country. I'd like to do something different. For a while anyway.

It also comes down to what we're trying to achieve, I don't understand why people constantly feel the need to try and talk people out of what they want to do. The ones who go ahead with it obviously have a purpose in mind, and who is anyone to try and make them do otherwise?

So can we get back to discussing D series things rather than B swaps like everywhere else on the forum? Let the thread serve its purpose