NEW 2009 Euro Luxury Auto Pinging

[nickxau]

can't help you there as i neither asked for or received an invoice.

Fair enough. Thanks.

[nickxau]

nickax, I have already done this. Had it confirmed by the dealer on Tuesday and it's ok.

The extra part in VIDs car I think is a new EMC. If the SW is incorrectly loaded (as in Ping Fix 1), then the only way to fix it is to have the EMC replaced.

I see... I thought maybe your dealer left something out that's why you only had 2 items replaced and that's why you still had the pinging issue . Having said that, I also only had 2 items replaced for my fix and I'm still having minor pinging issues.

[buddah51au]

The responsibility still lies with Honda Australia to ensure that it's dealers know how to correctly apply the fix. If the fix was been applied incorrectly, then HA should have got involved (again) to determine the breakdown. This is my point. The warranty is provided by the manufacturer who is ultimately responsible for it.

In my case my previous dealer washed his hands off the issue when it became apparent that he was unable to resolve it and referred me to HA.

i will agree to disagree with you on that fact. Honda Australia is an importer only, from there they need to establish a dealer network. It is thereafter the responsibility of the dealers (this is the case with all imported cars) to sell, service, carry out technical updates as well as handle warranty issues.

Honda Australia will carry out training courses for mechanics, some lasting several days. (it is up to the dealership if they decide to send 1 or more mechanics). Experience tells me these training courses are quite involved, often hands on with lots of note taking. The problem is it is hard for many human brains to remember every point they go over & recall what they were taught some time later. This is what sorts out good mechanics from the crowd. Up to this point Honda Australia has fulfilled it's obligation of keeping their dealerships up to date.

In many dealerships, staff turnover can be quite dramatic as they tend to offer less renumeration than non dealership organisations, this being the case, it is often hard for a dealership to retain good, conscientious employees.

I remember my working days in the trade in Sydney where I was earning double outside of a dealership. I could go on about this indefinitely as I have a lifetime of experience in the Motor Trade.

The bottom line is although the buck stops with Honda Australia, It is the dealers responsibility to get things right.

[Irving]

Here is a copy of Service Bulletin 09-041 for the Acura TSX. There is no mention of any resets that must be performed.
Has anyone got a copy of the Euro TSB?

[Bi99les]

After my visit to Doncaster Honda to apply the software update again the car is running smoother but still runs rough when cold and has an occasional hicup under load but no pinging.
My concern is the dealer said there was no problem to begin with?

[VIDSEURO]

My concern is the dealer said there was no problem to begin with?[/QUOTE]
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The only problem you have is your avatar, butt ugly


Actually when i got up this morning the wife said my rear end was pinging
like mad

[Irving]

I want to get one thing straight. My complaint has been in regard to excessive engine knock (pinging) since the ping fix was implemented. I have referred to this as "engine pinged it's head off out of the dealership". Instinctive, I knew that the ping fix had been botched. My battle has been to try and get the dealer to rectify this issue. Eventually, the pinging settled down (mostly gone). However, there was a certain roughness in addition to the mild PCS which left me with the sense that all was not well. This problem has now been resolved.

Below is an extract from the Haltech Interceptor manual:
Knock Control
Many factory ECUs employ knock control to prevent engine damage due to pinging. Generally the factory ECU will monitor pinging using the knock sensor and retard ignition timing to get rid of it. The problem with this for the Haltech Interceptor is that in the quest for more power, a tuner may advance the ignition timing, but this may cause pinging. The factory ECU then
retards the timing to get rid of the pinging, and the result is that the power curve becomes inconsistent and makes no more power. Haltech recommends that before applying advance, the tuner should retard the ignition timing to see if power is lost. If power is lost, then the advance can be gradually added until max power is reached. It is recommended that the tuner run the minimum advance that achieves the performance requirements. Haltech has found on several cars that maximum power was achieved with ignition retarded from the factory ignition curves, as the factory ECU was tuned to run on the verge of knock control all the time. Therefore more power was made by pulling the ignition advance back to a level that would prevent knock control operation and still make good power.

Now, let's look at the last two sentences carefully, in respect to the K24Z engine:
If the factory ECU is tuned to run on the verge of knock control all the time, this is probably done as a compromise between obtaining maximum power and maximum fuel economy. If the Ignition timing is retarded further, the pinging may be eliminated at the expense of power loss.

Any comments? Please feel free to add to this analysis.

[VIDSEURO]

Any comments? Please feel free to add to this analysis.[/QUOTE]

Hi Irving

Mate my lux has had no issue after the 2nd fix, as a matter of fact
i percieve / understand the engine seems more willing to pull
quickly from low km's.
Im thoroughly enjoying giving the CU2 a good old squirt at the pedal.

If you have any other issues ask your dealer to connect the car
to the computer and check all diagnostics to see if they are at their spec.

All the best mate

[denot]

One question that never seems to get the answer is...

Is the pinging still exist on My10?

[J-MAN]

I recently got an MY10 Standard manual and fortunately I don't hear any pinging. I've only done less than 2,000kms though so i'm still keeping an eye (ear?) out in case the issue shows up.

This is just one sample though, so I don't think it's enough to conclude. Hope others who got MY10 can also confirm.

[SPQR]

Just in case members here are not aware of their warranty rights, online retailer mwave.com.au was forced by the ACCC to send this email to all of it's customers. The principles and the law apply to all retail contracts, including the purchase of a car. A manufacturer's written warranty is the barest minimum. The law confers even more rights that go beyond a time and distance limited warranty. When Honda says that they will warrant the CU2 engine beyond the manufacturer's warranty period, they are not actually offering any more than that required by the law.

From mwave:

"Unit 5, 1-3 Nicholas Street
Lidcombe, NSW, 2141
Tel: 1300-727-446 Fax: 02-9649-6173 Email: warranty@mwave.com.au
19/03/2010

Subject: IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR WARRANTY RIGHTS AND OUR OFFER TO ASSESS YOUR WARRANTY CLAIM

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) has raised concerns with us that previous warranty representations made by us on our website at www.mwave.com.au (Website) are likely to have contravened the Trade Practices Act 1974 (TPA).

The ACCC was concerned that MWave had previously told its customers that:

• They could not make warranty claims such as a refund or repair of the item.
This is incorrect. The TPA provides that a number of warranties and conditions are implied into every contract between a consumer and retailer. These warranties cannot be limited by a retailer. Any term of a contract that seeks to exclude or modify these statutory rights is invalid.

• They could only make warranty claims against the manufacturer and not it.
This is incorrect. Consumers are entitled to insist that the retailer provide them with a remedy, even if a problem is due to a manufacturers fault.

• They would always have to pay the shipping costs to return faulty goods to Mwave.
This is not true. Each sale is a contract between the consumer and the retailer. There may be cases where a consumer can recover shipping costs from the retailer if the retailer breaches the contract.

We have removed these representations from our website and have agreed to assess warranty claims from customers who purchased goods from us after 1 July 2007. For further information please see below - 'Your right to have your warranty claim assessed'.

The TPA implies statutory conditions into consumer contracts for goods and services. For example, goods must be of merchantable quality, be fit for their intended purpose and must match the description given to the consumer or the sample shown. Services must be carried out with due care and skill and materials supplied in connection with the service must be fit for the purpose for which they are supplied. For more information about your rights as a consumer, please visit the ACCC website at www.accc.gov.au.

Your right to have your warranty claim assessed

We have identified you as a customer who made a purchase through our Website after 1 July 2007.

If you had problems with the good you purchased for which you wished to make a warranty claim but believe that you were:
(a) misled about your warranty rights and as such you did not make a warranty claim; or
(b) denied a warranty claim by us,
we have undertaken to the ACCC that we will now assess/reassess your warranty claim.

To have your claim assessed or reassessed, please contact us providing the details of your claim either by email at warranty@mwave.com.au or by writing to us at:

Patrick Managreve
Esel Pty Ltd t/a Mwave
Unit 5
1-3 Nicholas Street
LIDCOMBE NSW 2141

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience our conduct may have caused.

We have taken steps to implement a Trade Practices Compliance program to minimize the risk of future non-compliance with the TPA.

Kind Regards,

Patrick Managreve."

[Zapped]

Oh No....after boasting with few people that I didn't have the Pinging problem, after 21,000Km on my Jan 09 Lux Navi, I am starting to hear the dreaded pinging noise that everybody is talking about. I hear it when I accelerate form still or when I accelerate uphill. It sounds like there is a thin sheet of metal vibrating for few seconds and then it goes when it shifts into the nexr gear.

IS THIS IT?

If it is, can someone recommend a Honda dealer in Melbourne (possibly northern suburbs) that actually knows how to apply the right sequence of actions to fix it?