K20 or b16a turbo?

[GenesisEG]

Main reason why N/A is better for track is usually down to reliability due to heat.

Is this true?

I thought the main reason N/A cars are more suited for track is the power curve. Turbo cars produce bugger-all power outside of boost, so the power band in the car is going to be super narrow.

N/A cars have a much more even power curve, so you have a much more consistent power output. It's much easier to power out of a corner if you don't have to worry about keeping your RPM in such a narrow corridor. Predictability is important when you're hammering at top speed, last thing you want is for your turbo to spool up mid-corner and throw you for a spin.

Reliability is probably another reason, but all tuned cars suffer from unreliability at some stage, boosted or not.

I see so many of these threads, forced vs natural, and it really all comes down to three things.

Personal preference.

Budget.

Purpose.

I love the sound of turbo cars, and the pull you get when the turbo spools up is incredible, but for anything other than drag racing, I'd always suggest going N/A. It takes a bucket-load of cash to make a turbo car responsive enough to drive on the track. Lightweight flywheel, good quality hi-flowed turbo, good exhaust system and so on and so forth. If your car is not properly set up and tuned, it will be a slug. Throwing a big turbo on a car does not make it good, it just produces big numbers, and that's not really that important when building a fast car.

Case in point, my friend has a WRX (which he's selling by the way, just bought an EK...). It only produces just under 200 kilowatts at all four wheels. That's about 100 kilowatts less than my old ute. He does 0-100 in just over 3 seconds, and top speed is well over 300kph. His top speed is lower than my ute's, but his acceleration is just out of this world. I put this down entirely to the way he's had it tuned, and the parts he's put into it. It has a small turbo to minimise lag, so it's not producing the huge numbers you'd expect from such a fast car, but it's as responsive as any N/A car I've ever driven, and the power delivery is smooth enough to be reliable for track work.

Keep in mind that he's spent over 50 grand just on mods, so if you want to turbo your Civic and have it running at that kind of level, you'll need to spend probably more than that.

I just bought myself an EG, and I'm going B18C. Not interested in putting a turbo on it, not even in the slightest. I want a consistent power curve to minimise the impact that torque steer is going to have on me in the hard corners and also to make sure my car is as predictable as possible.

Personally, I'd suggest looking at only one thing, what do you want to do with the car?

If you want to drag it, then you need to consider a couple of things.

One, you will need to beef up the engine to cope with the strain that's going to be put on it with each and every launch you do. It's all good and well to stick a turbo on it, but if you keep launching hard with stock internals...

Then you need to consider your drive train. Can the diff cope?

Brakes are important too, you want to be able to stop before you hit the wall at the end of the straight.

Suspension is a big one, is it going to absorb the weight shift when you launch so you can get off the line quickly? Hard springs and shocks don't mean alot, you gotta have good suspension to really soak up that torque.

Then you need to have light wheels and good grippy tyres, since FF cars really suck at putting power to the road from a stand still.

...

If you want to track it, whoa, so much to consider.

There's alot more to a fast car than big numbers. Weight, suspension, wheels, tyres, engine response, compression, turbo size, turbo lag, boost pressure, exhaust size and design, engine capacity, drive shaft, clutch, flywheel, diff... The list is endless, and you need to consider them all when you design your car. It's en expensive venture to make a fast, reliable car. Something you should do with alot of care and thought, rather than quick-fixes.

I used to go for big numbers, I drove a 6L V8 with huge power, and then I got pummelled by a car with half the power output simply because it was designed better, and he got around corners much faster too. Learn from that, it's an important lesson to remember when tuning cars.

Hope I haven't ranted on too much, I just see so many of these threads, and I really wish people would learn that speed is not a matter of throwing a turbo on, there's so much involved...

[thebob]

Beating a evo or wrx in a na car is far greater then beating it in a boosted car. You will never wipe that smile off your face. Plus down shifting into 5th is another reason k's are the best.

[EG5]

Would be kool to see a Honda out gun evos and wrxs, honestly never seen one in real life tho

video clip from back in 05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCCuiqgMvZA

video clip from back in 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCgBuK_vTVQ

[Lukezen27]

Would be kool to see a Honda out gun evos and wrxs, honestly never seen one in real life tho

Dude i smoke all stock EVO & WRX & STI's

I go out with the REXNET boys sometimes coze I have a mate with a modified Subaru...

Example of there times!

WRX 05 ish 14.1
WRX 05 ish 14.4
WRX mixed with a few first timers were mostly in the low 15s
STI 03 13.9
WRX 02 12.5 (heavily modified)
EVO 7 12 flat (heavily modified)

[YOUTUBE]NZc1_i_NzrA[/YOUTUBE]

I was able to get my current setup running for under $6000 including Motor conversion and quality parts

My built thread
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/forumdi...er=desc&page=2
Did it all out on the street

Is this true?

I thought the main reason N/A cars are more suited for track is the power curve. Turbo cars produce bugger-all power outside of boost, so the power band in the car is going to be super narrow.

N/A cars have a much more even power curve, so you have a much more consistent power output. It's much easier to power out of a corner if you don't have to worry about keeping your RPM in such a narrow corridor. Predictability is important when you're hammering at top speed, last thing you want is for your turbo to spool up mid-corner and throw you for a spin

Well its mostly true but you just need to change your driving style accommodate..

Plus the difference isn't that big with Honda's and people over exaggerate

[Ek4Vtir]

Crazy stuff hmm im so gonna turb it up hmm but one concern is would the cops put a yellow sticker on the car or even impound it? Or you can get some sorta certificate?

[shurman]

I doubt the police would be able to impound your car, purely for being turbo. Defect, yeah, impound, doubtful.

You have to remember man, defects are apart of tuning. We all know the risks and accept those every time we drive.

g/l with the build. b16 + turbo will be a lot of fun!

[IEVAQ8]

thats kool man, what happened to your ITR btw?

hmm were u able to take on EVO's and WRX's with turbo setup? or am I just hopeing for too much now with B series?

unfortunatly, my itr got pinched back in November 2009,
wrx and evo's where a waste of time..........lol
i was able to keep uip with stock and lightly modified gtr's..........

so they say

my thoughts are, if you wanna run more than 7-8psi you pretty much should be rebuilding the engine anyway. might as well get a b20 and build that to handle the boost while still being able to drive the b16 around.
my 2c

b20 has much thiner walls on the block and sleeves, not very good for boosted application, and unless the engine needs the rebuild, dont see y they cant hold upto 10psi..........
at one stage while tuning, my engine was seeing 12psi for 6hours of tuning.......
but i had no choice at that stage due to wastegate spring creeping, i ended up only running 7.5psi

[damienm]

hey IEVAQ8, just wondering if your motor wouldve lasted on that set up with the gt30r? if you were to track it say, twice a month?

[IEVAQ8]

hey IEVAQ8, just wondering if your motor wouldve lasted on that set up with the gt30r? if you were to track it say, twice a month?

i drove my car daily for about 18months, since it was boosted...and after it got painted, bout 14months sinces boosted, i took it back to my tuner to fix up the cold start (as we never got a chance to do it from day one) and i decided lets do a power run to see where the engine is at, and i will swear on my life, the figures where exactly the same with nothing touched apart from the cold start.....

i never got a chance to track it as i didnt have an oil cooler, but i did go to the drags twice in my time while boosted.........

i guess its all in the tune and the way u look after it..........p.s. i didnt baby it even though i drove it daily...

[Ek4Vtir]

IEVQ8 were u affraid when u see cops around :P

[IEVAQ8]

IEVQ8 were u affraid when u see cops around :P

not really, as my car on the outside only looked mild, just was lowered neatly, 17" dc5R wheels (so still retaining honda badge looks stock). and tinted windows, i think i got away with it heaps, due to not having a big fuk off cannon muffler at the back, i had a straight through 3" exhaust with no cats or mufflers at all(which mad it burble and deep on idle, but really loud on WOT...lol), and it was neatly finished at the back where it didnt protrude past the rear bar cut out.....

and i guess a bit of luck and sensible driving (u know right place right time)...

[kraiye]

STI 03 13.9

serious??!

lol thats awesome! that means my NA B16 is quicker than rexs! on shitty tyres!!
i really gotta get back to the strip to test this out!!!!