DC5 Injen SRI.. where c an I pickup in Sydney?

[EVLGTR]

@Lowiez Do you have any evidence that HEATSOAK robs a a significant load of kW while street-driving?, Give me a legit answer to that.

@SpoonS OK...let me show this middle-schooler an image so that it makes sense to him/her. ( I'll make it as reader-friendly as possible just for you ) The picture of a DC5 below shown by your bum-chum Lowiez is an engine bay area of a DC5. The header, you know what a header is?, an exhaust manifold is located at the back of the engine near the firewall and that charlie brown is where it generates heat. Now, the pod filter (SRI Type ) shown here is located away from the exhaust manifold and to the side not the back as some people claim its located at the back, lmao.
It will however suck in warm air because its open and within the proximity of the engine bay but kW-robbing HEATSOAK, no.

Get back to me if that still doesnt make any sense so that i can clear things & make a new thread titled " HEATSOAK on SRI, is it really a problem on a daily car " , we'll make a poll and have all these good people at OZHonda to decide. But hey, i shouldnt bother you anyway coz you're the one using an SRI for 3 yrs and find no problems with it and you know what i mean.

[Lowiez]

Thankyou for repeating information that has been already clearly outlined on this thread, let alone the forum.
We know what heatsoak is and if anyone didn't they could have found out on page 1.

So before you make another breakthrough in mechanical knowledge or common sense, remind yourself copy and paste doesnt classify as the previous

No I don't have specific dynographs of heatsoak if I did you'd be seeing it on page 1.
Do you have dynos of:
- Injen CAI vs Injen SRI
- 1" catback exhaust vs 3" catback exhaust
- Benefits of reducing upsprung weight with lightweight rims compared to heavy replicas

^^^
Lack of dynos doesnt discount the mentioned basic knowledge
My point is it doesn't need a dyno to atleast make sense
Of course a dyno would help. but I wouldnt waste money buying/installing/dynoing one just to show you

so to discount it completely:

ROFL @ someone who says heatsoak is an issue. Obviously he/she has been reading a lot of urban legends.

is stupid


ps. if you read the thread SpoonS already said it wasn't a major issue for a DD
so don't think your the first to say its no issue on a DD...you're not starting a revolution, but make whatever thread you want

[EVLGTR]

@Lowiez as expected from a FIGJAM, you wouldnt have a single answer to your HEATSOAK theory.

[Lowiez]

I don't have a dyno for a DC5. That can't be said for other cars with a similar setup

If you really are interested and not just arguing for the sake of it, read

http://racingbeat.com/intake.htm

extract:

In addition to our usual round of dyno testing with each intake, we've added over the-road and static intake temperature tests. Intake temperature is perhaps the most important factor that aftermarket intakes can affect. Since every increase of 10 degrees in intake temperature costs almost one percent in power output, an intake that pulls in hot air can actually hurt power, while a properly designed cold-air intake can improve performance far more than the airflow potential would imply.

In conducting our intake temperature testing we've attempted to simulate normal driving with easily repeatable tests conducted at almost identical ambient temperatures. We plumbed a thermocouple into the throttle body for all measurements and conducted moving tests at sustained speeds (45 and 70 mph) in fourth gear. We then stopped and let the car idle, taking measurements after 30 and 60 seconds of idle time to simulate what might happen to intake temperatures in traffic.

In addition to simply presenting these temperatures for your intellectual enlightenment, we used the standard SAE correction factors for temperature and adjusted the dyno readings to represent the effects of intake temperature at 45 mph. Since we always conduct dyno tests with the hood open, this after-the fact correction is a more accurate representation of real-world power gains.

CAI:
http://racingbeat.com/jacksonintake.htm




SRI:

http://racingbeat.com/hksintake.htm
EXTRACT:

As discussed, the obvious problem with this design is that it places the intake quite close the blazing hot exhaust header. As we've learned time after time from underhood intakes, the power-stagnating effects of engine heat can easily cancel any power gain made an otherwise efficient intake.

RESULT:
Amounts to on the MIATA 2hp atw and 2 LB-ft of torque...JACK ALL. Not much of a difference after 60 seconds. The difference between ambient air temp here from idle at 30 seconds to 60 seconds was 4 degrees and 2% power.
If you can't see how performance will decrease further after the car being on for longer, don't bother trying to understand it.

Times your car is not on for more than 60 seconds:
- moving it from one end of the driveway
.....otherwise this will affect you in some way if you have a SRI right next to the headers, as above.

More information:

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_0360/printArticle.html

EXTRACTS:

Intake Air Temps

How hot or cold the intake air is has a big impact on the way an engine performs. High intake air temps will results in decreased power (because there's less oxygen in each cubic foot of air) and also a higher chance of detonation occurring. So, why would the intake air be any hotter than the temp of the day, anyway?

First up, let's take the case of a naturally aspirated engine. Many engines have air intakes that are positioned under the bonnet. This means that lots of the air that is being drawn into the engine has already passed through the radiator - so it's bloody hot! How hot? - up to 60 or 70 degrees C. Of course, there will also be airflow into the engine bay from around the engine, and past openings like the headlights. But in many cases, on a warmer day the air being drawn into an underbonnet engine intake can still be as high in temp as 60 degrees! And since - as a rule of thumb - engine power drops by 1 per cent for every 4 degrees C that the intake air temp rises, this isn't good..... (Incidentally, that's why AutoSpeed doesn't have much of a liking for exposed underbonnet filters installed without heat shields....).

In all cars, the lower the intake air temp, the better. In a naturally aspirated car with efficient cold air induction, when the car is moving the intake air temp should be less than 10 degrees C above the temp of the day. The best we've ever seen is 5 degrees above ambient, and many cars - even after cold air intake modification - still have an intake air temp about 15 degrees C higher than the day temp. In forced aspirated cars, the highest temp that you want to see - depending on how much boost you're running, of course - is about 30 degrees C above the day temp.

Another common occurrence is heat soak. Drive a car on a hot day until it is up to operating temp and then park it. Hop back in after half an hour or so and it's not uncommon to see intake temps of 70 or 80 degrees C for the first minute, remaining elevated for some kilometres of driving. Forced induction cars with water/air intercooling systems will stay high in intake air temp for 10 or 15 minutes, as all that thermal mass of the water needs to be cooled.

Theres so much more information available. Haven't touched the car forums yet

summary
From various articles and studies inclusive but not exclusive to the above sources:

6-10 degrees increase = 1% drop in power.
People will and can legitimately argue that 1% = jack all.
Whilst this is somewhat true for street application, it is not true for race application. And keep in mind that 4 degrees in ambient temp. was a 30 second idle difference in the study above. How much the temp will go up after that I wasn't able to find a measure, but with common sense you can imagine that it would definately go higher if 4 degrees higher was in the 2nd 30 second period.
Also we on the DC5 normally aspirated 4 cyl 2.0L platform don't have big numbers to begin with, and a 10KW atw difference can cost you cams and an ecu ($5000+?) so it makes sense to care about small differences

the concept of heatsoak exists
First you need to understand and agree that:
- cool air ie lower intake tempreture is beneficial
- this is because in cool air any given volume of it is more dense and contains more oxygen than any given volume of warm air
- and the concept of engine combustion, if you cannot understand this you will not understand heatsoak

ENGINE COMBUSTION:

1. Intake
* Combustible mixtures are emplaced in the combustion chamber
2. Compression
* The mixtures are placed under pressure
3. Power
* The mixture is burnt, almost invariably a deflagration, although a few systems involve detonation. The hot mixture is expanded, pressing on and moving parts of the engine and performing useful work.
4. Exhaust
* The cooled combustion products are exhausted into the atmosphere

This process is obviously how power is produced. This process is more efficient with more oxygen per volume of air, as in step 1 the mixture (AIR/FUEL) is injected into the combustion chamber and this ratio is a set A/F ratio controlled by the ECU...Whatever the air requirement of this is, it needs it, and the air intake will need to draw in that amount of oxygen to satisfy efficient combustion as set by the specific A/F.
Cold air will satisfy this requirement as it will need less volume of air to draw in any given amount of oxygen as cold air is more dense with oxygen compared to hot/warm air.

So..
Heatsoak: inefficiencies in combustion given by warm air as higher volumes of warm air are needed to draw certain amounts of oxygen. As tempretures get higher and higher more volume of air is needed, if the intake can not provide to scale the increases in requirement of air volume than power is lost.
This is less of a problem as a DD but still evident, and tempretures will increase with time and workload

SRI on a DC5 is more subject to hotter air than a CAI as a SRI is right next to the headers, where combustion products in step 3 of the above process have detonated and are ejected through the headers as exhaust fumes and exit the engine block. This is the hottest part of the engine bay so logic says the air around the header is also quite hot and subject to increases in tempreture as more exhaust fumes exit through the header as workloads and time increase.

Since tempretures around the header is known to be high and it can be shown that intake tempretures of a pod next to them reflect this, as well as the fact that warm air makes combustion inefficient which can lead to a loss of power.
Heatsoak exists for the DC5

here's your 'legit answer'
now of course. This will affect differing builds in differing ways and differing degrees. But there is no doubt it exists.
And if you can avoid it by simply choosing a different intake style, why not? especially when it is supplemented with better gains anyway

[WATAJK]

**** yeah this butter popcorn is ****ing sweet

[kingjumbo]

Ok.. I can safely say I'm not going to be buying my injen sri anymore lol.. plenty of valid reasoning.. might just stop be a lazy c**t and design my own box coz i like the idea of the pod being more conveniently placed.. anyone got pics of a decent custom dc5 intake? i'd love to see it

[r3ckless]

if your doign that, might as well do that Hodnata gutted airbox mod.

[kingjumbo]

yeah i'm thinking about possibility of placing a k&n pod inside the gutted out stock box and rigging up cold air flow.. im searching around but can't find anyone else whos done it

[type_AHH]

Holy s*** that was one hell of a comeback from Lowiez.... lol. It was a very interesting read ^_^

[r3ckless]

EVLGTR - u got owned!

[WATAJK]

Big time.. LOL... Popcorn with butter tastes good i must say ;D

[Lowiez]

Ok.. I can safely say I'm not going to be buying my injen sri anymore lol.. plenty of valid reasoning.. might just stop be a lazy c**t and design my own box coz i like the idea of the pod being more conveniently placed.. anyone got pics of a decent custom dc5 intake? i'd love to see it

good on you mike

Holy s*** that was one hell of a comeback from Lowiez.... lol. It was a very interesting read ^_^

EVLGTR - u got owned!

Just trying my best to make sure whoevers reading gets the right information
If this plays out like any other thread the guy has argued invalid reasoning on, no doubt there will be some sort of far fetched tangent of a response lol