Choosing Coilovers for my daily car

[chargeR]

Wouldnt having it uncaptured at full extention mean on the chance that when you're at full extention (for example on the inside tyres of a high G corner) you have "x" amount of unloaded compression when the weight gets shifted back. Which wouldn't be ideal, yes?

Yep you're right, there would be shock travel and body roll before the spring contacted the perch where the spring would have no influence and that corner of the car would effectively be in free fall (except obviously the compression damping of the shock and bushing stiffness would be acting as spring rate). Alternatively though if the shock is droop limited, as in the situation where you have a heavily "preloaded" spring, then you will have the same problem except instead of continuing in droop travel the shock will just stop and lift the tyre of the ground abruptly and contact the ground just as abruptly as the cornering load is removed. Neither situation is desirable in my opinion.

However this will very rarely happen on tarmac with swaybars, as it is very difficult for a shock to reach full drop under cornering loads on a smooth surface assuming the single wheel rate of the sway bar is sufficient to overcome the unsprung mass trying to pull the wheel down toward the ground. If you are rallying or in dukes of hazzard style situations where you are hitting full droop constantly, then keeping the spring captive with a helper spring or similar is definitely advisable.

Sorry if my explanation is a bit poor, I prefer to draw things on paper .

The biggest issue you will have when a coil becomes untrapped is that it can move from the locating seat and potentially damage the shock rod or body when the coil is compressed again in this position.

Pre-load is a stupid term when it comes to coilovers, think of it this way - wind the spring seat up, wind the spring seat down what have you changed? The position of the spring, that is all. The weight on the coil is still exactly the same! If you wind up the "pre-load" on the coil you are simply bringing the spring closer to the installed or loaded height, the closer you are to loaded height, the less droop or down travel the shock has then negating the rebound effort of the shock. Once you have little or no rebound stroke you will also experience less tyre contact with the road making the car skittish and handle worse.

The only reason the spring seat is adjustable on those coilovers is to allow different length coils to be used on a one size fits all shock body and also you can try and set the coilovers up so that once at ride height the shock has the ideal amount of stroke in bump and rebound.

Great post. Succinctly sums up the main concepts on why preloading is just tuning the amount of bump and droop travel.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/newsfeed/000/184/961/tumblr_lnvvueuSsj1qcj56b.png?1318394475



Actually, If you wind a spring up, beyond the point of where contact to the top plate it, and continue to wind it up, you are "Loading" the spring. A spring doesnt just compress and the rate stays the same, the rate will change as it is under a lot more force then it it was not "Loaded" therefore the ride would become quite a bit stiffer and more bouncy.

The term "Pre-Load" is only stupid to people who think they know how suspension components work.


Everyone is an expert in here though. Thank god for E-mechanics/E-engineers.

No I am not kidding. Plenty of shocks do not limit droop travel, which is what you are doing when you "pre-load" your spring, the world doesn't end and they don't have springs lifting off spring seats during use or shock shafts getting bent because of it.

I don't know how else to state this: senna and I are correct, you are wrong. A linear spring is linear (sorta, the geometry of the ends and a few other effects make them somewhat non-linear) and by compressing (preloading) the spring further when the shock is at full droop you are only limiting the amount of droop travel. The spring's rate doesn't change. I am not trying to be a dick but from reading your posts I don't think your understanding of suspension components is as good as you think it is. I can draw some diagrams to illustrate, or maybe we can just meet up at the next Ozhonda meet to discuss or something .

[exquisit]

what do you work as mate?
=)

I see what you are saying, but i don't see how you can get a linear rate coil to do anything different from a loaded height. Apart from topping out the shock on rebound or droop.

Honestly, i don't want a keyboard war happening here, It's only going to mess this thread up further and i only came here to get some info as i'm buying a civic by the end of next week - just trying to give back where i can.

Suspension is my profession by the way.

[senna]

Sales and development (falcons mostly as its my background) and i gt my hands dirty in the workshop when needed but thats pretty rare cos i'm too fat to work fast...lol

I'm proud of these:




Koni all alloy 2822 long body 4way adjustable race shocks

They Went into this:

[hazza78]

You guys have some good points. Not going to start a war, but the reasons why I chose the Yellow-speed as are follows:

1. They are made in Taiwan, so are all the others, even the Tanabe. If you think, or are trying to tell me they are made in Japan, your dreaming. They are all made in the same factory. Designed independantly.
2. They come highly recommended, by 4 independant suspensions outlets (best of the cheaper range).
3. They were $400 odd cheaper than the closest competitor.
4. My car will NEVER see a track, I wanted to be lower for looks, and have damper adjustment..
5. The main reason is the lower mounts are height adjustable, meaning regardless of how high/low I go, the shock travel is NEVER affected, and full travel is always maintained.

If I had a budget of 2k or over, obviously I would have chosen differently, but for around the $990, can't beat them.

Anyways, they have gone into my car, 25 clicks from, 20 rear. Found them to be firm but no bouncy at all. I backed them off to 15 click frot, and 10 rear. Now it is virtually like the Civic Sport stock ride. Slightly firm, no bounce. Even on the terrible Sydney streets, the car is sweet.

Waiting for my Camber arms to come in as I will be chewing through tyres on the rear. Camber is huge.

Thanks to Matt and Peter at Wholesale suspension Penrith. Awesome bunch of guys, honest, good price and good advice.

Will post pics of the suspension and car when I get the camber kit in.

[senna]

Good choice for a budget conscious product, good range of adjustment and priced where that type of product should be

[hazza78]

[dougie_504]

What spring rates are they? Sounds interesting

[hazza78]

8kg on the front, 7kg on the rear. This is the new set they have, with firmer rear rates, and 50mm rear damper. The older set had 8kg front and 6kg rear, with a 46mm damper.

[Oxer]

No I am not kidding. Plenty of shocks do not limit droop travel, which is what you are doing when you "pre-load" your spring, the world doesn't end and they don't have springs lifting off spring seats during use or shock shafts getting bent because of it.

I don't know how else to state this: senna and I are correct, you are wrong. A linear spring is linear (sorta, the geometry of the ends and a few other effects make them somewhat non-linear) and by compressing (preloading) the spring further when the shock is at full droop you are only limiting the amount of droop travel. The spring's rate doesn't change. I am not trying to be a dick but from reading your posts I don't think your understanding of suspension components is as good as you think it is. I can draw some diagrams to illustrate, or maybe we can just meet up at the next Ozhonda meet to discuss or something .

All good, What I was trying to say turns out to be the same thing the 3 of us are talking about. What I was trying to explain is that if the spring is wound up, it creates force which makes the shock "top out", therefore creating a rough ride... Therefore the rate in which the coilover rebounds at will change. The spring rate itself doesnt change as the material it is made out of doesnt change... Only when the diameter of the material or the number of coils is changed will the actual spring rate will change..

Since we are sharing pics...



Suspension is also what I do, only with a little more adjustment then your standard form of coilover...

[Move]

hi ozhonda forums,
yes, before you all gang up on me, ill say it, im a newb when it comes to modifying cars. anyway, i didnt want to make a new thread, and this existing one seemed appropriate...

so lately, ive been getting offers from people selling cheap parts for my cd accord 97, i have one offer sitting in my email inbox atm, for a set of shocks/coilovers, Front are Tein HA with cusco camber top and Rear are cusco Vancanza. now before i tell you guys the price, i just would like you guys honest opinion, on whether i should get this set for my car. what im after is to lower my car to a good looking height, but still have a comfortable/practical ride. im under the general consensus that coilovers are "stiffer" than there stock counterparts. im getting the coilovers for $380 shipped. is this price worth it? theyve been used for 6 months. am i even using all the right terms for this? sorry, im new to all of this lol.

if i were to buy them, should i go diy and install? or get them professionally done?

tl:dr, been offered $380 for tein and cusco shocks/coilovers, want to know if it is worth it, and is it what i am looking for? im new to the modifying scene, and want to do it right the first time. im after to lower my car, and have a comfrotable/practical ride.

if you guys need any more info to help me make an informed decision, just tell me

heres some piccy's
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7349814...in/photostream

thanks guys!

[kcokla]

hi ozhonda forums,
yes, before you all gang up on me, ill say it, im a newb when it comes to modifying cars. anyway, i didnt want to make a new thread, and this existing one seemed appropriate...

what im after is to lower my car to a good looking height, but still have a comfortable/practical ride. im under the general consensus that coilovers are "stiffer" than there stock counterparts. im getting the coilovers for $380 shipped. is this price worth it? theyve been used for 6 months.

\

tl:dr, been offered $380 for tein and cusco shocks/coilovers, want to know if it is worth it, and is it what i am looking for?
im new to the modifying scene, and want to do it right the first time. im after to lower my car, and have a comfrotable/practical ride.

if you guys need any more info to help me make an informed decision, just tell me



thanks guys!

$380 is awfully cheap - too cheap imo which makes me think theres something wrong.

secondly DIY is fine if - but since your new, just do some reading and ask questions - as many as you need its an easy job and should take you 45 minutes IF you have all the right tools but im guessing you dont if you have basic tools like a rachet set and a car jack and stands, should take you a couple of hours.
What are you planning to do with your car?
Race?Cruise?

If your just looking to lower, i would suggest some cheaper coilovers that are brand new, something like skunk2 or some koni's with some tein springs.
If your after a stiff ride - then more higher end brands make plenty of good coilovers such as buddyclubs, cusco, teins, etc.


ps the attachments you set up arnt working.

and to answer your overall question,
yes $380 sounds worth it if everything you've told us is legit.

[Move]

well, im looking for something just to cruise around in man, not planning on taking it to the track. ive been told that if anything goes wrong with them, i can get a full refund. the guy is trustworthy enough imho, ive bought off him before. so i think im gonna get them. im not doing anything outrageously stupid am i? lol
anyway, thanks for the input man.

updated previous post with links to pictures btw