running in a full rebuilt motor

[e240]

Was at the Ducati Factory few years back and watched brand new superbikes roll off the production line. First stop was the dyno room where each bike was checked and then redlined several times.

[Egcivicduty]

yeah, as stated
most cars and some bikes are driven the hardest they will in their life before they even leave the factory

[hondapop]

A key factor in this running in process, and how it applies to the OP's question, seems to be how finely were the bores on his engine honed, as all of the talk seems to relate to new engines. Have reconditioners caught up with these improvements? Obviously Toda has, but what sort of difference would it make to using this method if the bores were'nt up to this standard ? (I was going to say "scratch", but thought that just didn't sound right).

[tinkerbell]

It's all true & it works...
Or if built with cams etc & the tune is out the window.
Get it to stoich asap & get on with tuning it on the dyno.
1st oil & filter change is critical - within 1st hr of operation.
Don't **** that up.

mine was done this way, still has 260psi across all 4...

How the pistons & rings were installed also makes a difference.

yeah, you need to know this as your tuner needs as much information about the insides of the engine to know exactly how to manage it...

[hondapop]

[Quote]How the pistons & rings were installed also makes a difference.[Quote] Apart from making sure the rings are gapped correctly and the gaps are spaced evenly around the piston, what other steps can you take to install correctly ?

[IEVAQ8]

It's all true & it works...
Or if built with cams etc & the tune is out the window.
Get it to stoich asap & get on with tuning it on the dyno.
1st oil & filter change is critical - within 1st hr of operation.
Don't **** that up.
Once tuned, she's run in.
Change the oil again & do your worst.
Pissing around with long km run in period is just b/s from people who don't really know.
Run it in hard & it will last a lot longer, make more power & use no oil.
The reverse is true for engines that are babied.
How the pistons & rings were installed also makes a difference.

regarding the forst start up/first hour of operation....wat sort of oil are we using????
or is it the same as wateva u will use for the life of the engine???

[Bludger]

regarding the forst start up/first hour of operation....wat sort of oil are we using????
or is it the same as wateva u will use for the life of the engine???

I would say use the normal oil of choice.

since you're running it hard/tuning it on the rollers.

[trism]

First start up/first hour, you wanna use a an oil with a high zinc content.

Why? Because the zinc is an additive that bonds to the microscopic metal filings and draws them away from the friction surfaces. So on first start up, the fresh rings are gonna grind up against your pretty cross hatching, and wear the most they ever will. You want this zinc to pull this worn off metal away, and get it down into the sump, and caught in the oil filter.

As for the mineral or synthetic, HSV use Mobil 1 straight from the factory, which is a group 4 full synthetic oil. So use that to determine.

If you rebuild a motor to stock specs, and run a stock ecu etc, pretty much start it up, let it come up to temp, then go for a 20 minute smash, making sure you rev it out a few times.

Then go home, and change the oil and filter straight away.

[tinkerbell]

this old HT post from Earl is a very useful one:

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=878397

and formed the basis for this: http://www.laskeyracing.com/shop/breakin.htm

and you will be hard pressed to find anyone who recommends using synthetic oil in a new engine...

(regardless of what HSV does)

i used this one on mine: http://www.penriteoil.com.au/product...running-in_oil

[TODA AU]

Apart from making sure the rings are gapped correctly and the gaps are spaced evenly around the piston, what other steps can you take to install correctly ?

Further to gapped correctly & spaced evenly,
The gaps must be exactly at right angles to each other from the side veiw & parrallel from above
NB: square corners with just the sharp edge removed - do not champher (round) the corners
2nd ring requires a larger gap than top ring (0.05~0.010mm over the top ring gap, less than this can lead to high oil consumption & blow-by)
Eg: Top 0.25~0.30mm, 2nd 0.35~0.40mm
Installing the rings to the pistons with your fingers IMO is better than using a ring expander & less chance of damage to the ring or piston.
(This is not always possible on larger engine though)

Piston & bore prep before piston installation...
(If the engine is going to be used shortly after completion)
Method A) - Bores oiled then wiped near dry, skirts lightly oiled & wiped near dry - rings dry
Method B) - Bores wiped & cleaned dry then dusted with "Quickseat" - Pistons & rings installed dry
(Qickseat is a Total Seal product - http://www.totalseal.com/Tools.aspx)
Look up Quickseat in the selection box
Clocking the rings - per manufacturer's spec. Toda's is as below...


Piston installation.
Pistons should only be installed using a piston sleeve, slider or non adjustable ring compressor.
This eliminates any chance of ring breakage, piston skirt damage etc as the piston can easily be inserted with your thumbs.
No need for the hammer handle etc.
http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/prod...on/slider.html
http://www.totalseal.com/Tools.aspx - Non adjustable ring compressor
http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Wiseco-CompressorSleeves.pdf

NB: If the engine is going to sit around for a long time before use,
Use Total Seal assembly lube on the bores together with quickseat.

As for bore finnish etc,
The break-in procedure is the same, but without a plateau hone, the 1st oil change is even more critical.
I use a torque plated plateau hone for acuracy becasue the forged Toda pistons I use run 0.0009" to 0.0011" piston to bore clearence. (Ref Toda Honda pistons)

[hondapop]

Thanks for that answer. Certainly won't find that info in the average w/shop manual (or as they're now mostly called "service manuals") and the usual rebuilder probably wouldn't be as precise either. Good info regarding ring compressors as I know when I've used the adjustable ones, easy to get a ring end crossed.