Buyer Car Protection. Legal/crime

**MWAKU** · 15-01-2012 07:31 PM

Ok i just wanted to share a situation that happened, not to me, but to a friend

so theres three people, first person (A) is the original car owner, person (B) goes to buy the car, leaves a deposit, then gives a bank cheque, and takes possession of the car. but, the bank cheque, bounces, as its not a real cheque made from the bank but a frauded one. so person (A) then goes to RTA reporting the car, now as 'stolen'.

during this time, person (B) has taken fotos of the car personally himself the day he left the deposit, and quickly made a carsales ad when he got home. so during the period of him leaving the deposit and giving the bank cheque, which is roughly 5 days, person (C) -- which is my friend, goes to look at the car, likes what he sees, pays 30,000$ all in cash to person (B). during the purchase, revs check was completed, nothing came back, as person (A) hasn't probably realised the cheque doesn't work or whatever and hasn't reported it. fotos of persons (B) license is taken, but later to find out that the license is fake and person (B) took the foto of person (A)s license aswell, and mocked up another license card with persons (B) picture instead of persons (A)

i assume this crime is organised, as everything is well planned out. The name of person (A) is something hard to tell gender, like Hui or some other foreign name. So originally, lets say Hui is person A, is a female, and person B, now seems to be Hui, but is male. So what happens is that, person (C) meets person (B) at his 'girlfriends apartment', parked in a guest spot, in a residential housing area, (so theres a lot of houses) and they met in an underground carpark. Person (C) believes that all car buying precautions have been taken care of, and hands the cash over and takes the car.

Person (C) goes to RTA and they tell him the car is registered as stolen. Now, purchasing cars before hand, person C was never aware of this kind of crime, and never printed out a revs certificate or anything else. Just did a revs check and license check visually. Now person (C) takes it to court, and person (A) is also fighting for repossession of the car, at the end, the magistrate deems the car to be bought under say, 'sus' terms.

Person (C) is down 30 grand, person (B) takes off no where to be found, person (A) receieves the car back..

NOW, my question is, how would someone avoid this. I assume to print out a revs certificate for protection, but is that enough so that if this case doesnt occur, person (C) will be able to keep the car, rather then losing all his money? Are there any other checks that has regularly updated?

Because if person (B) and (A) have the same name, how do you figure it out that its stolen?

Please, no 'i think' or 'assumptions' just really want a clear cut answer from someone who actually knows what to do in this kind of situation.

Another precaution is obviously, to deal with the transaction at the RTA if ur in person (C)'s shoe, so when u transfer it over as u purchase, it will come off saying stolen or not. and if ur in persons (A) shoes, take the bank cheque to the bank during the transaction to see if it clears/works before you hand over the keys. but, easy as it sounds, its a hassle. and sometimes sellers don't prefer to wait in the RTA for their car to be sold.

So yeah, thoughts/advice/cautions?

**jdm18c** · 15-01-2012 07:42 PM

thats cut man sorry for your mate..if he didnt buy the revs cert then it aint a valid cert that means they can take the car (happened to my cuzion)

**GSi_PSi** · 15-01-2012 11:08 PM

That is messed up, it seems like persons a+b were in on it.

But yeah printing out a legit revs certificate that you have purchased should protect you from repossession, im a bit sus on the conditional part though.

http://www.revs.nsw.gov.au/
For a fee of $14.45 a REVS Search Certificate, which gives you conditional legal protection against repossession due to the previous owner's unpaid debt, is available to you for purchase online. You can also purchase a certificate from the REVS telephone service on 13 32 20 Monday to Saturday. Telephone service hours are, weekdays from 8:30am to 5pm and Saturdays from 9am to 2pm..

**JPR28610** · 15-01-2012 11:32 PM

thats f'd up..

**JPR28610** · 15-01-2012 11:34 PM

btw for someone to sell on carsales dont they need credit card to pay the fee? cant they track down the person who posted the advert?

**Nickykeeng** · 16-01-2012 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by MWAKU

so theres three people, first person (A) is the original car owner, person (B) goes to buy the car, leaves a deposit, then gives a bank cheque, and takes possession of the car. but, the bank cheque, bounces, as its not a real cheque made from the bank but a frauded one. so person (A) then goes to RTA reporting the car, now as 'stolen'.

during this time, person (B) has taken fotos of the car personally himself the day he left the deposit, and quickly made a carsales ad when he got home. so during the period of him leaving the deposit and giving the bank cheque, which is roughly 5 days, person (C) -- which is my friend, goes to look at the car, likes what he sees, pays 30,000$ all in cash to person (B). during the purchase, revs check was completed, nothing came back, as person (A) hasn't probably realised the cheque doesn't work or whatever and hasn't reported it. fotos of persons (B) license is taken, but later to find out that the license is fake and person (B) took the foto of person (A)s license aswell, and mocked up another license card with persons (B) picture instead of persons (A)

i assume this crime is organised, as everything is well planned out. The name of person (A) is something hard to tell gender, like Hui or some other foreign name. So originally, lets say Hui is person A, is a female, and person B, now seems to be Hui, but is male. So what happens is that, person (C) meets person (B) at his 'girlfriends apartment', parked in a guest spot, in a residential housing area, (so theres a lot of houses) and they met in an underground carpark. Person (C) believes that all car buying precautions have been taken care of, and hands the cash over and takes the car.

That really sucks. Where did this happen anyways? Definitely wouldnt have paid in pure cash, maybe a draft or something and if there wasnt a certificate I would have gone with the person to the licensing to do up the papers first

**flipfire** · 16-01-2012 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by MWAKU

Ok i just wanted to share a situation that happened, not to me, but to a friend

so theres three people, first person (A) is the original car owner, person (B) goes to buy the car, leaves a deposit, then gives a bank cheque, and takes possession of the car. but, the bank cheque, bounces, as its not a real cheque made from the bank but a frauded one.

Person A should have waited for the cheque to clear (assuming hes not in on it). Also person C paid $30,000 in cash for a car?? Im surprised they didnt just rob him on the spot.

**e240** · 16-01-2012 12:00 PM

I don't believe buying the cert would protect you in the above situation. The cert only protects you if the previous owner had amts owing on the car.

The above situation is a fraud situation in which the car was "stolen" from "A" and then sold to "C" - the car was illegally sold hence "A" is entitled to reposession of the car.

Originally Posted by GSi_PSi

That is messed up, it seems like persons a+b were in on it.

But yeah printing out a legit revs certificate that you have purchased should protect you from repossession, im a bit sus on the conditional part though.

http://www.revs.nsw.gov.au/
For a fee of $14.45 a REVS Search Certificate, which gives you conditional legal protection against repossession due to the previous owner's unpaid debt, is available to you for purchase online. You can also purchase a certificate from the REVS telephone service on 13 32 20 Monday to Saturday. Telephone service hours are, weekdays from 8:30am to 5pm and Saturdays from 9am to 2pm..

**integraR** · 16-01-2012 12:13 PM

you know how the rego label that you peel from the sheet (the paper that is sent to you to pay your rego) you request that when you buy the car because it contains info such as the owner, owner's address and vehicles details and this will indicate that they're the *real* owner of the vehicle

also request for the most current one

i'm in vic and the piece of paper contains relevant info not too sure about nsw

**TheSaint** · 16-01-2012 12:33 PM

if it was explained to the magistrate the way you explained it to us and he made a decision that was not in favor of your friend....
either the magistrate is a bloody idiot and the legal system is a joke - or your friend needs to hire a better lawyer

either way your friend shouldn't need to go without his 30k$ .... report this to the police exactly how you have told us
and with as much evidence as possible

**TheSaint** · 16-01-2012 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by flipfire

Person A should have waited for the cheque to clear (assuming hes not in on it). Also person C paid $30,000 in cash for a car?? Im surprised they didnt just rob him on the spot.

also this - i would have paid in some sort of reversible transaction

**geeang** · 16-01-2012 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by TheSaint

if it was explained to the magistrate the way you explained it to us and he made a decision that was not in favor of your friend....
either the magistrate is a bloody idiot and the legal system is a joke - or your friend needs to hire a better lawyer

either way your friend shouldn't need to go without his 30k$ .... report this to the police exactly how you have told us
and with as much evidence as possible

Unfortunately his friend is not entitled to the car, also deemed to be the proceeds of a crime. Person "A" reported the car as stolen, and is the legal owner of said car, just because person "B" has taken money for it does not mean person "A" does not still legally own the car. It's like saying "hey, I'll sell you my friend's phone without him knowing" - I'll take your money, but it doesn't mean my friend has to give you his phone.

This situation is only one of many kinds of Cheque Fraud, and is much more common than most people know.

The only avenue for your friend now is to hope the police catch the perpetrator, prosecute them, and recover any stolen monies.
To prevent such occurrences in the future it would be best to meet at the address on the car's registration label, also be very wary when someone is super pushy and wants to sell for cash as quickly as they can.
Also, a revs certificate wouldn't have helped if the car was sold to person "C" during the time the cheque was clearing (as the car would not have been reported stolen yet).

Also OP, was this the 2JZ IS200?