Engine Builders, I need advice/comments.

[Super-DA9]

Hi all.

As some of you may have read in my build thread, I have built myself an all motor B18C2 and it's somehow gone wrong. I am suspecting incorrect piston ring installation by the shop that balanced/machined the bottom end.

Anyway that's not really the point of this thread as I've had enough ranting about that in my build already.

What I am looking for is opinions/advice/comments on the following things from people who have ACTUALLY built/rebuilt their honda engines.

- How do/did you break in your new engine/s?

- How long did it take to finish breaking in (rings to seat etc.)?

- Did your engine/s use a fair bit of oil/smoke on cold start and under load/high rpm during the break in period? how long did it take for it to stop?

- What kind of compression test results did you achieve on your new engine/s?

- Did you go by all the products specifications in your build? (e.g. CP piston ring gap/hone specs)

- Did you get it tuned to any special AFR's for break in?

- Any tips for the second time around?

The reason I ask this is because there are too many different opinions from people who have just "heard" what to do. But never from those who have done it themselves and succeeded.

thanks.

[dougie_504]

I just read your thread a bit. I haven't built an engine so if you want to discount what I say then go for it.


How did you break in your engine, you said you were idling it for a while as you made tuning adjustments? Was this before you did a proper run-in (dyno or hard driving)?

Breaking the engine in should be mostly done within 15-30min of hard driving but you're supposed to run a mineral oil for the first 1,500-2,500 KMs as the last part (about 10%) of the break-in happens more slowly over this period of time. First oil change after that first short run.

It will blow a fair bit of smoke before the rings are broken in properly. Should mostly stop after the initial 15-30min.

New B18C2 compressing well should put out about 220-240psi, right? That's the impression I'm under but I have no idea what CR you have (didn't read it all).

Personally I'd go by the specs recommended by product manufacturers.

I believe (don't quote me) that you're supposed to run the car preferably rich rather than lean during break-in.


My tip (noob) would be to run it in on a dyno. Tow it there, run it in, change oil, drive away.

[Super-DA9]

How did you break in your engine, you said you were idling it for a while as you made tuning adjustments? Was this before you did a proper run-in (dyno or hard driving)?

Breaking the engine in should be mostly done within 15-30min of hard driving but you're supposed to run a mineral oil for the first 1,500-2,500 KMs as the last part (about 10%) of the break-in happens more slowly over this period of time. First oil change after that first short run.

The tuning adjustments was done beforehand. and only for a short period.

It will blow a fair bit of smoke before the rings are broken in properly. Should mostly stop after the initial 15-30min.

New B18C2 compressing well should put out about 220-240psi, right? That's the impression I'm under but I have no idea what CR you have (didn't read it all).

11:1CR 250psi i should think. I got 180-195....

I believe (don't quote me) that you're supposed to run the car preferably rich rather than lean during break-in.

AFRs are 14.8 at idle/cruising, and 13.5 at WOT.

Thanks but what I'm seeking is other peoples experience because all the info I find when I search the net and ask people who haven't built honda engines is different.

[stndrd]

Here is a link that explains alot for running in a new engine

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...22#post3196722

[mocchi]

nice link ay

too bad mr.toda dont post anymore these days

[senna]

Its not a honda engine, but when i built my motor with billet rods and forged pistons, i threw it together in a garage then loaded a standard tune. Put normal semi-synthetic oil in and went for a 400km round trip drive. I drove it as i would going to work orto a mates place. Not thrashing but loading up the engine.

Motor has now done over 60,000kms and has no problems.

Assembly has alot to do with how long your engine will last, the run in IMO is not as critical as some may have you believe.

Also, 13.5 AFR is crazy lean at WOT if you ask me - should be down closer to 12

[lil_foy]

Its not a honda engine, but when i built my motor with billet rods and forged pistons, i threw it together in a garage then loaded a standard tune. Put normal semi-synthetic oil in and went for a 400km round trip drive. I drove it as i would going to work orto a mates place. Not thrashing but loading up the engine.

Motor has now done over 60,000kms and has no problems.

Assembly has alot to do with how long your engine will last, the run in IMO is not as critical as some may have you believe.

Also, 13.5 AFR is crazy lean at WOT if you ask me - should be down closer to 12

Running n/a at 13.5 shouldnt be a huge problem, most I know run 12~13.

[senna]

Really? Far out....low comp i could understand, but that still seems lean with a high comp n/a

[mocchi]

kpro got wot lean cut on low 14.
im assuming that would be lean, hondata and other books say 13-13.2 is best for wot na.

is this getting off topic?

superda9, how precise did you check your ring gaps and orientation?
what did you ask your machinist to do?

[Super-DA9]

ok guys thanks but please don't think I'm asking for people to tell me what went wrong because I'm in the process of proving my theory at the moment. and I will only trust what I prove with testing.

what I'm looking for is other peoples experiences with building and running in honda engines to compare.

also adrian from toda has been the one I've been getting advice from throughout this build and he pretty much said exactly what was in that post.

kpro got wot lean cut on low 14.
im assuming that would be lean, hondata and other books say 13-13.2 is best for wot na.

is this getting off topic?

superda9, how precise did you check your ring gaps and orientation?
what did you ask your machinist to do?

as I said this kind of stuff is what I will be investigating but I'll answer it anyway.

I took the bare block/pistons/rings/bearings/rods/crank to the shop and asked them to perform the following:

- surface grind
- honing according to the specs for the CP piston rings
- balancing of moving parts and assembly (this includes setting the tolerances for the rings also according to CP's spec sheet)

I also consulted them about all the parts I was using to make sure they agreed before actually booking it in. when I got it all back the guy who did the work said it all went perfectly and the tolerances are all exactly what CP specify for their pistons/rings on this exact application.

I reckon he put a ring on each piston upside down or in the wrong order... lesson learned.

Thanks for everyone's input thus far!

[Benson]

If the engine is assemble properly with the right clearance, the engine shouldn't be smoky at all!

We break-in the engine on the dyno and get a basic run in tune depending on how extent the engine build is. Keep the a/f safe at high 12's and double check for knock

[Super-DA9]

If the engine is assemble properly with the right clearance, the engine shouldn't be smoky at all!

We break-in the engine on the dyno and get a basic run in tune depending on how extent the engine build is. Keep the a/f safe at high 12's and double check for knock

Hi Ben,

thanks for your input. I agree it shouldn't be smoking. this is what is leading me to believe one or more rings on each piston were installed upside down or in the wrong order. I will be doing this part myself this time around as the parts are already balanced.

So you guys run it a bit rich during break in. I ran an octane booster and retarded the ignition a bit in the ecu and at the distributor (getting the hondata to agree with the position of the distributor.) just to be safe and I didn't have any pinging. what I thought was pinging on the first start turned out to be a bit too much timing belt slack which was easily fixed.

this could be wrong because I haven't seen any solid proof of it, but my understanding was that running rich for break in was not good because fuel would wash the film of oil off the cylinder walls and foul the oil. is this incorrect?

So anyway I would be interested to hear the process you use to break your engines in there at BYP.

when you break in your engines on the dyno, how do you go about it? do you just do WOT pulls immediately? or do you do the commonly spoke of revving up to 5k or so and letting the engine bring the RPMs down lots of times..? how long do you do it for before going out onto the street and proceeding with normal driving?