timing belt out a tooth!

[Paul1985]

hey guys, just curious if anyone has any experience with timing belts..
a few months back, mine broke and i had to tow my car to the mechanics (silly me took it too my local mechanic, i wont next time) At the time i didnt know what was involved with it, i thought it was a simple thing and i thought my mechanic would be more than capable of fitting a new one..

im currently doing a automotive mechanics course at TAFE and i took it in there for my teachers to have a look at because i could tell my timing was out (car pings sometimes, lack of performance, quiet obvious this was the prob as it only started happening once i had the belt replaced), we checked the timing and my teachers told me it's out a tooth...

now, i dont really wanna take it back to my mechanic to do coz i dont think he would do a much better job than before.. is this a really difficult thing to do..

what i really need to know is it possible to make this a D.I.Y job, how complicated is it too do? because im contemplating doing it myself if its not extremely difficult..

please help guys, any comments/advice or anything will be a huge help

cheers

[DLO01]

To be honest, I am not exactly sure about honda motors, but I rember with my old Celica there were timing marks on the cam gears. So when the motor is at TDC (top dead centre) (aligning your crank pully to the timing mark) The marks on the cam gears should point up. That was with my old Celica so hopefully somone else and comfirm with you car.

But the first thing that comes to mind when you said that you timing belt snaped is are you sure you did not bend any valves?

[Paul1985]

setting up the timing is a little different and a little harder than some older cars due to electronics.. we did end up working it out though at school, and the distributer cant move any further and its supposed to be in the middle (its right against the edge of something and cant move anymore) and the timings still off..

im pretty sure the valves are ok, ive been driving it aroung for a couple of months on a daily basis as it is now.. well i hope so!!

i dont need to just set up my timing with a timing gun, i need to align the belt up properly, u would think a mechanic would do better than that, all u really gotta do is make sure all the dots are lined up together (on the belt n stuff).. we did this at school, but with extremely old shitty motors that were in pieces (old corolla engines i think.. 4A/4G motors or something like that, cant remember exactly), newer honda engines seem very complicated though.. the japs make fantastic engines though!

[FR33K]

hmmm ive snapped my timing belt as well before
and my mechanic put it on wrong.
trust me.. if your timing belt is out a tooth you will really know
u woulda taken the car back the same day u got it back.

but yeh.. maybe its something else ?

[e240]

please help guys, any comments/advice or anything will be a huge help
cheers

Its a medium type job. You just need to understand what needs to come off in order to change the belts. Have a look at the engine and plan.

Before actually taking off the belt, after rotating the engine to the correct timing marks, ALWAYS count the number of teeth between the Pulleys. So for example, on my Ducati, when I change timing belts, its got 3 pulleys, I will get 3 set counts.

I'm not sure as yet what Honda prescribes to tension the belt (there may be a special tool) but from what I've ben told, always err on the loose side. Make sure the belt is tight enough not to jump teeth, but it must be loose enough not to snap the belt under tension.

[Paul1985]

yeah.. im sure there would be a specific tension for it all.. i dont have a workshop manual myself but i photocopy all the stuff i need from my TAFE's manuals..

anyone else able to give me any assistance?

its definately my timing.. pretty sure its the belt.. dont know what else it could possibly be.. and not being able to line up my timing is also an indicator..

[sesshoumaru]

are you sure the timing isn't out because your dizzy has been rotated??

[Paul1985]

we checked the timing with the timing light, timing was out of place, we moved the dizzy to get it the closest we could trying to align the timing marks, but it could not go any further.. it only has a small area for movement and we couldnt move it any more forward which we needed to do to get the timing right, the timing is still out.. the teacher told me that most likely it is a tooth out, and i had another friend (mechanically minded) who when i mentioned my prob said it'd be a tooth out.. although im not 100% sure on it.. i do think thats what it would be

i might try do the timing all over again and set the dizzy, just to double check

[ECU-MAN]

dont waist your tim eon the dizzy
sounds like your valve timming is a tooth or so out.
I have enought pics to do a DIY, but im not brave enough to make a DIY as I feel it would do more harm that good if peeps start trying to do there own belts. for a good mechanic the timming belt on a civic is easy. but I have seen non honda mechanics get it all wrong because they used the red timming mark on the pully as TDC when infact you just use the marking on the crank chaft timming belt pully.
also a tight timming belt doesnt snap timming belts, it snaps crank shafts so be carefull.

let me know if you want help on getting to the timming belt to fix this with your tafe lecturers.

[e240]

as I feel it would do more harm that good if peeps start trying to do there own belts. for a good mechanic the timming belt on a civic is easy. but I have seen non honda mechanics get it all wrong because they used the red timming mark on the pully as TDC when infact you just use the marking on the crank chaft timming belt pully.

Well, you've got to start somewhere. and that where reading and researching comes in. Planning reduces the potential for mistakes and builds confidence.

I changed the belts on my Duc every 5K km(Because the duc was only ever tracked, so it was a precaution - each duc has 2 timing belts), and have done 2 changes myself. Never used official factory tool ($800), just a back yard's mechanic method of a 5mm deflection. Happy to say never had a problem at all, and I put this down to me making sure I planned and researched everything before going into it.

[panda[cRx]]

[QUOTE=e240]

back yard's mechanic method

i think that is what ecuman was concerned about lol

[Paul1985]

i think u got it spot on ECU-MAN.. sound like u know what ur talking about, u mentioned u think its my valve timing (my belt would be causing this, right?), explain a bit more?? the red marks are a bitch to find.. someone had marked it with chalk (i think) and it took us a while to figure it out.. the thing i had most trouble with was finding the service check connector (the two-terminal one) that we had to bridge down near the ECU, because our manual said different colours to what were actually down there, it was difficult. im pretty sure i bridged the correct ones though, there were no others..

so do u think that the timing belt would be the problem?