Euro ecu flash

[sodaz]

BLKCRX, i think why Gibbo thought the reflash was a waste of time was because he was hoping that it would provide huge gains (comparable to an MPS) we all know that a reflash won't have the euro making 190kw. yes there are gains to be had, but i know it wont be anything earth shattering.. at least not without, intake, headers, single outlet exhaust etc etc

Yeah i agree. I'm sure there will be gains after the reflash and some modding. But i don't think it'll get close to an MPS still.

[yfin]

Yeah i agree. I'm sure there will be gains after the reflash and some modding. But i don't think it'll get close to an MPS still.

Unlikely in outright power terms - but who knows in actual road performance how much difference it will be. Remember the MPS weighs well over 1600kg. On a power to weight basis - the Std Euro would need around 165kw at the fly to be about the same power to weight ratio as the 190kw MPS.

[Usual Suspect]

the hole thing about the reflash is to fix the power gaps that the euro has, its not all about top power figures. THere is some information about the hondata ecu flash and from that i can gather that it will be probably the best mod for a euro, coupled with i/h/e.

[Gibbo]

all i meant to say was that from what OTHER people were saying in this thread it seemed like the reflash was a waste of time - i am waiting to see the cost and hear from people that have it in thier euro i just want to get a bit more from the euro i dont expect it to be as fast as an MPS, just have a bit more get up and possibly lower the vtec point abit!!

[aaronng]

i think with extensive engine work, you can get a NA k24A to have more than the mps (is it 190kw for the mps?) at the fly. I mean i know of a k20A in a DC5R thats probably putting around 170-180 kw at the flywheel... so with a big budget its defintiely possible

That's because the K20a is not limited by the top RPM. With resleeving, lightening and balancing internals as well as reinforcement, I'm sure you can have it spin at 10,000rpm. The K24a on the other hand is limited because of the piston speeds from its long 99mm stroke. Even with internal work, I suspect that the maximum reliable RPM would only be 8000-8500 ish, which is not enough for 190kW at the flywheel. Using the power = (torque x rpm) / 5252, you would need the same 198Nm (which is the stock torque at 6800rpm) at 9165rpm to produce 190kW. I don't see the K24a being able to sustain 9165rpm for even 5 seconds. If you had aggressive cams to move all 223Nm up to high RPM, then you would need only 223Nm at 8150rpm. Still beyond the redline of SCCA's TSX.

Edit: For 165kW, you'd need 223Nm at 7050, that's doable but requires aggressive cams (and probably change the intake manifold to suit as well!)

[Chris_F]

yea thats a good point... i remember porshe had a 3.0L 4 cyl at one stage that had the same readline (and incedently power) as the euro... but they may have been bored not stroked?

maybe if the engine could be destroked to 2.2L or something?

in sayin that i actually no of a car (spoken to the guy doing it) who is doing a k24a and k20a hybrid (k24a blcok and k20a heads) that is expecting 160-170kw at the wheels.

[aaronng]

yea thats a good point... i remember porshe had a 3.0L 4 cyl at one stage that had the same readline (and incedently power) as the euro... but they may have been bored not stroked?

maybe if the engine could be destroked to 2.2L or something?

in sayin that i actually no of a car (spoken to the guy doing it) who is doing a k24a and k20a hybrid (k24a blcok and k20a heads) that is expecting 160-170kw at the wheels.

The good ol' 1987 Porsche 944. Amazing though that they could get 140kW out of an SOHC engine without tricks like VTEC. It made 140kW at 6000rpm and 231Nm at 4300rpm. Very similar to the K24a numbers. Of course, with much worse fuel consumption!

Is the hybrid going to be destroked? Since he's using the k20a head, then I'd guess that he is going to use the k20a cams which should give peak torque at 6000rpm. A little bit of polishing and intake mods to up the torque (let's say 230Nm?) and that will give 170kW at 7050rpm, which is a reasonable RPM. Of course, i'm assuming the engine is making 230Nm at 7050rpm, which is not the case if the K20a cams make peak torque at 6000rpm. There should be a slight drop in torque after the peak, so 170kW should be made at higher than 7050rpm.

If anyone doesn't agree with what I've said, I'm just playing with the numbers using the old power-torque formula.

[Peekay34]

I am sure what ever James has to offer is worth waiting for. You have to remember the US is not next door and co-ordinating Dyno runs, Cars and results backward and forwarding takes a lot of time and I am sure is costing the people involved time and money. I am definitly waiting for it to be completed and will be looking into it as soon as it is ready. Remember the MPS is not a NA car and should not be compared directly. I had a Dyno run against a slighty modified 6 the other day and the difference between his car and mine was greater than 20KW ..(The look on his face of was not a happy one btw). If you want to compare our car against the MPS Turbo your cars or wait till the super charger from Comptech comes out then put it on then see what results you come out with.

[Chris_F]

The good ol' 1987 Porsche 944. Amazing though that they could get 140kW out of an SOHC engine without tricks like VTEC. It made 140kW at 6000rpm and 231Nm at 4300rpm. Very similar to the K24a numbers. Of course, with much worse fuel consumption!

Is the hybrid going to be destroked? Since he's using the k20a head, then I'd guess that he is going to use the k20a cams which should give peak torque at 6000rpm. A little bit of polishing and intake mods to up the torque (let's say 230Nm?) and that will give 170kW at 7050rpm, which is a reasonable RPM. Of course, i'm assuming the engine is making 230Nm at 7050rpm, which is not the case if the K20a cams make peak torque at 6000rpm. There should be a slight drop in torque after the peak, so 170kW should be made at higher than 7050rpm.

If anyone doesn't agree with what I've said, I'm just playing with the numbers using the old power-torque formula.

Yep that's the one! i was really intrigued when i was reading about it because it was so similar to the euro spec wise (and i'd always thoguht it was 6 cyl)

I think i remember him saying that it'll be destroked to 2.2 litres... i'll ahve to go in and have a chat to him again and try and flesh it out. They are gona make one beast of a k24a/k20a though thats for sure. They'll be using a high end MOTEC ecu to run the thing aswell. In about 5 years i'll either sell the euro or plan on doing a similar thing and keeping the thing untill petrol doesnt exist anymore haha.

I think the euro with new rods and some internal parts can safely rev to past 8000rpm though? especially if destroked to 2.2 litres... what do you recon ppl?

[aaronng]

If destroked to 2.2, I'm sure it'll reach 8000rpm if you use lightweight pistons, toughened rods and everything balanced to match. Plus the usual valve springs too.

[Ronin]

That's interesting... isn't your car one of the ones they are testing the Hondata reflash on?

I am sure what ever James has to offer is worth waiting for. You have to remember the US is not next door and co-ordinating Dyno runs, Cars and results backward and forwarding takes a lot of time and I am sure is costing the people involved time and money. I am definitly waiting for it to be completed and will be looking into it as soon as it is ready. Remember the MPS is not a NA car and should not be compared directly. I had a Dyno run against a slighty modified 6 the other day and the difference between his car and mine was greater than 20KW ..(The look on his face of was not a happy one btw). If you want to compare our car against the MPS Turbo your cars or wait till the super charger from Comptech comes out then put it on then see what results you come out with.

[Gibbo]

Hey has anyone heard anything more about the reflash ??? Im begining to think that this might be the greatest trick ever pulled on the honda lovers of australia... lol I would love to hear if anyoine has got any news especially pricing and dyno figures or the like ... Cheers Gibbo...