RE: Toda Cam Gears

[wynode]

thats very true, the fact that not everyone has a spare $5000+ lying around doesnt really portray a real 'low budget' plan for bang for buck mods etc, based on the thread by TODA AU (adrian).
I'm sure theres other ways to increase HP, but what i'm wondering... some people will spend $400 of a set of X-Force extractors... then others will spends $1300 on Toda's or even more on mugen's etc... is the extra couple of hp really worth the money? or are you better off saving a decent amount of money and putting that towards other stuff?
i know thats starting to get off topic, but i'm curious... because it seems that with honda's, everyone is just so 'pro-brand name'... but alot of other car forums, people will just get xforce stuff etc... namely nissansilvia.com etc...?

It's because with Honda's it is a lot harder to get power out of them NA because of the good job that has been done out of the factory. Sure you can spend much less on a 'non brand name' product but you either won't gain anymore power or will actually loose power.

Who else to take advice from but the experts and their recommendations?

[vti-2]

thats very true, the fact that not everyone has a spare $5000+ lying around doesnt really portray a real 'low budget' plan for bang for buck mods etc, based on the thread by TODA AU (adrian).
I'm sure theres other ways to increase HP, but what i'm wondering... some people will spend $400 of a set of X-Force extractors... then others will spends $1300 on Toda's or even more on mugen's etc... is the extra couple of hp really worth the money? or are you better off saving a decent amount of money and putting that towards other stuff?
i know thats starting to get off topic, but i'm curious... because it seems that with honda's, everyone is just so 'pro-brand name'... but alot of other car forums, people will just get xforce stuff etc... namely nissansilvia.com etc...?

'Pro-brand name' parts are proven and many people modifying their N/A Honda's tend to go with what is tried, tested and proven to work and that is to work reliably time and time again. That is what you pay for when you decide to go N/A. It has always been like that and always will be in part due to the brilliant Honda engineering. I would never buy a cheaper brand of headers or cam gears simply to save money in an effort to chase more power from an N/A motor. And i think that is the philosophy of many serious Honda owners who have owned their cars for several years and are into modifying their cars. Its not just about saving money, in many cases it is about buying the best available product, knowing it will work reliably for the lifespan of the ownership of the car. A Spoon or Toda product, generally, wont let you down and that is the difference between Toda and XYZ brand.


But that is really another discussion and this is starting to get off topic. Can we please answer the original question.

Malenic1981, i think it would be best to start a new thread as your questions are not really directly related to the original question.

[Malenic1981]

We did go a bit off topic (sorry about that), but I think that mpd076-chuck put up a good bang for buck set up there.

[dark8]

hello guys...

although new to the forum, im not really new to the civics. Mine is quite old right now with about 170k on it, but its been running with the gear i put on it right from the start.

As for the original question about the cam pulleys, if u r going to do them, r you thinking about the cams as well? if u have to change pulleys and adjust cam overlap etc, its gonna take a while on the dyno, i know coz i have spoon cams and it took me half a day on the dyno to get best overlap on it while maintaining balanced power and torque graph (and it still looks like crap with a slight dip when vtec engages).

Time is critical because to us cheapies time = $$$. Changing pulleys and then sticking on SAFC might be good for now. But u have to ask yourself are you going to do spec a (or street cams) as well. If you are then your SAFC will be basically useless as it wont be able to tune at enough RPM points to help you gain max power.

If i were you, I'd save up the extra $$$ get a set of CTR cams (more aggressive than ITR cams) and then tune it properly. You'd be amazed at what sort of power you get.

On my tired B16A2 with spoon cams, cam pulleys, 2.5inch tanabe exhaust, "hot" air filter (havent got money for CAI again as i pulled it apart originally as i couldnt wash the damn filter under the body kit) and Perfect Power SMT5 piggyback i pulled 96kw at the wheels. I was disappointed with that figure, but when put into perspective, a stock ITR from factory (allowing build tolerances etc) i gather makes about 98kw to 100+ kw at wheels. So it wasnt quite a bad job.
cams cost me $1000
piggyback cost me about $600
install and tuning cost me about $600
and ive been running at that reliable stage since 100k.

I guess in a nutshell what im trying to say is, if you dont want further mods while the bonnets up to put in the pulleys then yeah go for your life. Or maybe at the moment "future proof" yourself and get a worthwhile piggy back. The way i see it is, electronics dont "wear out" like mechanicals (cams, flywheels, exhausts) etc. Their depreciation wont be THAT much i guess (unless a new model comes out), but at least if u want to upgrade more, then u dont need to spend the money on the ECU again. Proper tuning leads to max hp i guess.

My 2 cents

[syk]

Thanks Wynode and Vti-2 for that... i mean, i suppose being a uni student i'm not earning the amount most people here would be, so i'm trying to justify buying the xforce extractors myself haha

But i can see exactly what your saying, and appreciate the replies. Eventually, once dynodave has completed the development of his header for b18c7 i'll invest in those and go from there.

cheer's

-Dean

[pornstar]

dark8 : where did u get the tune done?

[dark8]

its a long story...but to cut it short, i travelled to adelaide to do it. The tuner used to work for Motec then autronic so i'd say he's pretty good.

guys name is Jiri (pronounced Yuri). was relative of a guy that owned renegade in caulfield which shut shop after about 1 yr....left me stuck with no where to go but to adelaide to dial my cams in.

[shmivic]

sorry to hijack but anyone here roughly no the degrees to retard or advance toda b using toda cam gears
i read about -2 on both int and exh with +4 on timing is about there

[TODA AU]

I was looking at bang for buck in specific car thread for DC2R but most of that is for people that have lots of $$$$ plus all those boyz there (TODA AU, DynoDave) think that we are all millioners, it's eazy to mod with lots of $$$$$, what about the real low buget (their is $7000+ low buget??? I don't think that's low at all)

I think you kinda missed the point.
The original intent of that post was to save you guys money so you don't waste money on stuff that doesn't offer a reasonable performance gain for dollar spent. Though not everything is cheap, it is better value that buying something that you think might work, but in reality is nothing more than a placebo.
Also, to set the record straight, neither Dave nor myself think any of you are millionaries. In fact, it would be closer to the truth to say, the reason you've got a honda, 9 times out of 10 is because you've got no money.
In any case, I can't please all of the people, all of the time.

Also, FWIW
You'd be better off with a VAFC II over an SAFC with your cam gears.

[Malenic1981]

TODA AU don't get me wrong, I would love to have $$$$ so I can just come to good tuning shop and say I want to make this car fast and blabla bla here you go $20000 do what ever you think is the best, but in reality that is just a dream.

Why do you think VAFC II is better than SAFC with cam gears???
I heard VAFC II does nothing, in some examples people even lost some power.

[dark8]

vafc II does the same as SAFC, plus able to adjust vtec kick in...

its all about the tuning...not the product