iPod Integration

[EuroDude]

Ok if you compare a WAV to a 192kb MP3 at your Desktop PC using good quality headphones, then you may notice a small difference. The treble may be a bit lower or something if you really concentrate. Man ive got good ears and expensive seinheiser headphones and I found it very hard to differentiate a wav with a 192kb vb file encoded with LAME or Fraunhofer, even more so with ACC (MPEG4 Audio).

But when you are driving, it all sounds the same since there are road/engine noises in the mix.


Remember that mp3/acc basically removes the sounds the human ear cant hear, so its not completely compressed as much as you think it would be.

[ICACHA]

eurodude and domenek, i have send you both a PM with a link, please have a read it will broaden your thinking into MP3's.

And remember, I didnt say that I-Pod wasnt any good, only MP3

[EuroDude]

Nice article!

So basically what they are saying is that the iPod produces excellent audio output, and those 128kb mp3s u downloaded from the net wont sound very good due to numerous reasons (bad source/codec). But if you encode your own CD's to 192/256kb mp3 using a decent encoder, then the mp3's will sound good in a car system, and will sound even better if using ACC (mpeg4), and may actually sound better than a CD player in a headunit if using apple lossless or uncompressed wav thanks to the iPods DAC.

quote:
128kbps mp3s are not exactly high-quality audio, but they are not all that bad either. Compared to your average car stereo system you will barely know the difference.
People who love their music though will encode their music in at least 192kbps or 256kbps. This does result in larger files, but it is much better sound quality. It is still lossy, but even to a well trained ear, the differences are minimal.

My argument is, that 192/256kb mp3 is acceptible in a car system. For a decent Hifi or when using quality headphones, its another story. 128kb is IMO not acceptible in a car system unless maybe if the Fraunhofer mp3 codec is used.



With my iPodVideo->IceLink->HondaHU system:

Music Video's sound crap since they are heavily compressed
Most of the 96kb/128kb mp3's downloaded from the net sound terrible
My own 192kb variable bitrate mp3's sound brilliant (using LAME) - pretty much the same as a CD.
Havent tried ACC/MPEG4 yet, but a 192kb ACC should sound the same as a CD, and a 128kb ACC should sound the same as a 192/256kb mp3

[ICACHA]

mpeg4 apparently is better than all other compression, from what ive heard. but none of my very expensive equipment plays mp3's nor do i wish to listen to compressed so-called-audio full resolution wav (i.e. original cd) for me thank you very much

[EuroDude]

yea mpeg4/acc is awesome, compared to wav I couldnt notice any difference at all on my PC using seinheiser headphones


luckily 1/4 my audio collection is in acc format, just gotta dump it to my ipod when I get a chance

[Saracen]

Guys guys, its ok. The big audio companies need people like ICACHA to buy their money-making gear and spend ludicrous amounts of money on extra power and wider frequency ranges.

ICACHA, the ear is fine tuned to perform best at picking up human speech. We can only hear sounds roughly between 20 - 20,000 Hz, with the best performance coming in between 300 - 3000 Hz. Now don't get me wrong, these figures are by no means constant from person to person, and there are other factors involved like age, experience and even genes.

However, I find it difficult to digest that in a car with all that extra noise, you would seriously be able to discern between only the cleanest source of music and a ~256kbps VBR mp3.

[ICACHA]

Saracen, you might want to close your windows and sound deaden your car regarding the comment about noise inside the car.

Oh I forgot your only listening to MP3

And those companies you speak of, they dont actually make much money on the expensive head units, how many do you think they will sell in a year? not many. they will sell more of the "whats your cheapest head unit that plays MP3" to people like you than they will sell the top end units to people like me think about what your saying, ive been in the car audio industry now for little over 17 years and know what stores sell more of.

You can buy an amp and a pair of speakers from me and it will only set you back about $24,000 AU Dollars taking orders now

Really, I buy what I want and what suits me, now if I can afford more than the average Joe then I'm not going to appollogise now am I?

Just cause I want to have equipment that suits me for 1. sound quality and 2. for the ability to tune the system then thats what I will buy as i-pod nor i-river will never be able to give me those tuning capabilities now will they?

[EuroDude]

However, I find it difficult to digest that in a car with all that extra noise, you would seriously be able to discern between only the cleanest source of music and a ~256kbps VBR mp3.

mp3 has come a long way since it was introduced.

I think ICACHA's view on mp3 quality has been soured by bad experiences with poor 128kb CBR incar music. I used to think the same until I starting encoding in 192kbVBR

Play a 256kb VBR file and its WAV source on a decent mp3 player and try to pick which one is mp3.


Even if you do have super human ears and can spot the difference, you should be concentrating on the road, not trying to fault the quality of the music

[Saracen]

Saracen, you might want to close your windows and sound deaden your car regarding the comment about noise inside the car.

I find it quite frightening that you seem to be so willing to completely segregate yourself from the outside world while driving. I would hate to be anywhere near you when that ambulance or fire truck comes speeding down from around the corner.

Oh I forgot your only listening to MP3

Once again, your completely ignoring all the arguments myself and others present to the validity of mp3s and other compressed formats. I'm beginning to wonder if it's an ego thing.

And those companies you speak of, they dont actually make much money on the expensive head units, how many do you think they will sell in a year? not many. they will sell more of the "whats your cheapest head unit that plays MP3" to people like you than they will sell the top end units to people like me think about what your saying, ive been in the car audio industry now for little over 17 years and know what stores sell more of.

I wasn't limiting my comment to only car audio. If you're hearing is really that good then quite frankly I'm suprised you haven't been snatched up by some organisation so that your super human abilities could be further studied.

You can buy an amp and a pair of speakers from me and it will only set you back about $24,000 AU Dollars taking orders now

I wonder how much of that extra fidelity, broader range, and increased power I would enjoy from such equipment. At least I could rest assured that my pet dolphines, whales, bats, dogs and snakes could all fill me in on the parts I'm missing out on.

Really, I buy what I want and what suits me, now if I can afford more than the average Joe then I'm not going to appollogise now am I?

Nobody here is asking you to apologise, and yes you are free to spend (or waste) your money however you see fit.

[ICACHA]

Im also a motorcycle rider so I'm use to keeping my eyes moving, yes I do use mirrors

with all due respect, i was pointing out how crap mp3 and other compression formats are not that it wasnt good for people to own an mp3 player.

well i know my hearing is good. dont know about everyone else listening to cranked music or loud exhausts where you cant hear the music in the car.

i enjoy it very much, at least i dont have to sit here trying to work out that i want to download to an ipod for example or where to find it once i jump in my car and want to listen to a particluar track that is buried somewhere in the memory of the ipod or equivalent player. i know whats on the disc as its got the track and title listed by numerical order

glad you agree with my habits in spending money

[EuroDude]

Thats why you use iPod playlists
btw I played Apples ACC format with a few ripped CD's, damn it sounds good Better than 128kb mp3 thats for sure. Not much different to 192kb VBR mp3 though

If you still dont like compression, why not get a 60GB iPod and use WAV.

60GB / 700MB = 85 CD's (1700 songs). No more CD swapping

[ICACHA]

i know cd swapping is teadious, but if and when i attend sq competitions i cant use HDD, even thou at full wav resolution to complete plus the difference of playing back with 24bit (yes i know its like 1bit when driving) when competing is much better than the resolution of the mass media storage unit at possibly 1bit