Jazz manual transmission issues versus CVT

**lokets** · 20-04-2006 02:46 PM

Folks. I am interested to get another Jazz (VTi) to replace my old one (GLi, CVT), but due to recent scare of jerkiness on my old GLi, I've decided to look into manual VTi instead of VTi CVT. Actually, the jerkiness is most likely due to something else entirely - perhaps a EGR failure, not CVT related.

However, before I jump head on into it, I like to know what are your experiences/view points on: Jazz manual vs CVT?

1. Are there some hidden issues with manual transmission as in some other likely component failure? For example, CVT has the issue of potentially start clutch failure - very expensive repair. Does manual transmission have any thing like that?

2. The fuel comsumption on manual is marginally more (like 6.1 versus 6.0 - yeah right), so that's not a real issue for me - even in the coming days when petrol is expected to hit some $1.50++ per litre.

3. There reverse gear of CVT is very weak - try reversing up hill with your car front pointing down hill to see what I mean. I presume the manual version will not suffer from this.

4. I'm not sure the 0-100kph performance of manual vs CVT but presumably the former is just slightly faster. To me that's not the main reason to go manual - it's more the simplicity (and hence reliability) of manual vs CVT.

5. Yeah, VTi CVT has 7-speed "manual" but I find the paddle harder to use, especially when you are turning and changing gear - almost impossible to press the right button (left or right?) and yet turn the steering. Or is it just my brain had been programmed to change with left-hand gear stick and steer with right hand while turning, after driving for close to 20 years?

What do you think?

**NvM** · 20-04-2006 02:56 PM

manual is slightly faster 0-100 time & so far in 2 yrs not one problem with my manual gearbox...

**aaronng** · 20-04-2006 03:02 PM

One thing to note is that the manual Jazz also has an EGR valve. If Honda did not fix the problem by using a different part, then you might still get the same jerkyness.

**kuso** · 20-04-2006 03:32 PM

I can feel some jerkiness and shuddering with the manual transmission. Always thought it was due to my driving skills since no others have voiced such a problem. Gear box is not as smooth as time goes on. Maybe its my bad driving skills but its an evident problem to me.

**lokets** · 20-04-2006 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by aaronng

One thing to note is that the manual Jazz also has an EGR valve. If Honda did not fix the problem by using a different part, then you might still get the same jerkyness.

That is correct, faulty EGR will affect GLi/VTi or CVT/manual - regardless of engine/transmission. Nevertheless, I am aiming for a more "reliable" transmission and wonder if manual would fit the bill - just do not want a dead CVT that cost $K++ to fix - even if the car is under warranty, labour cost would be very high.

**lokets** · 20-04-2006 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by kuso

I can feel some jerkiness and shuddering with the manual transmission. Always thought it was due to my driving skills since no others have voiced such a problem. Gear box is not as smooth as time goes on. Maybe its my bad driving skills but its an evident problem to me.

Perhaps you too can have a look into your EGR valve - since you would not have a faulty start clutch in CVT that may cause the problem.

And Honda gearbox is slick, chunky & satisfying to play with, the best in the business - but as you observe, it wears down with time (which component does not?), and the nice smoothness disappears. The same with CVT - as time goes on, it becomes slightly rougher & noisier.

**MiSloVic** · 20-04-2006 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by lokets

Perhaps you too can have a look into your EGR valve - since you would not have a faulty start clutch in CVT that may cause the problem.

And Honda gearbox is slick, chunky & satisfying to play with, the best in the business - but as you observe, it wears down with time (which component does not?), and the nice smoothness disappears. The same with CVT - as time goes on, it becomes slightly rougher & noisier.

honda manuals, though smooth, also have its 'characteristics'.. sometimes, it can be hard to engage 1st to 2nd, if u shift too fast..

any manual clutch wears out by ard 60k-80k km mileage.. but the manual clutch is considerable cheaper to pay.. cost to replace the manual clutch assembly and the CVT start clutch is about the same.. my take is, if there is nothing wrong with ur CVT, keep the car..

consider the $$ outlay to replace ur current jazz with another jazz, i don't think it is worth the $

**muli** · 20-04-2006 05:17 PM

over 100,000kms and my manual gearbox is still the same, still just needs abit of a tap to change gears and only a little push off the clutch required.

From figures posted by other jazz owners on this website the manual seems to have better economy.

**lokets** · 20-04-2006 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by muli

over 100,000kms and my manual gearbox is still the same, still just needs abit of a tap to change gears and only a little push off the clutch required.

From figures posted by other jazz owners on this website the manual seems to have better economy.

That is amazing - pretty good gear shift!

The official figures are that CVT gives better economy (not much as I said before) because infinite gear/computer can decide what's best at all times. Unusual that manual can beat that CVT fuel consumption. Anyhow, that is still good news for manual transmission.

**Jus-10** · 20-04-2006 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by kuso

I can feel some jerkiness and shuddering with the manual transmission. Always thought it was due to my driving skills since no others have voiced such a problem. Gear box is not as smooth as time goes on. Maybe its my bad driving skills but its an evident problem to me.

I have this too and thought I must have become retarded at using a manual...

One friend had joked that I probably still hadn't worn the clutch in (the car only has 17,000km on it after 3 years and for the most part I drive like a granny)

I persoanlly find that the gearbox has good and bad days. I went for a drive on Monday and it just sucked. Nothing felt right at all and I couldn't wait to stop driving. Then other days it is just super-sweet and an absolute joy to work up and down through the gears.

I think that alot of my little problems are due to me being extremely picky and the fact that I just don't use/drive it enough.

**kuso** · 20-04-2006 06:32 PM

Yea there are days when it feels that the clutch grabs whatever it grabs and it does what you want. Sometimes it is not the case and you feel the need to have to hold the clutch more and the like.

In terms of the EGR thing, do I just tell honda that I discussed this on a forum and they said that it is the problem? Some how I don't think they will believe me. I tried to suss out this jerky problem before but it seems that the honda people aren't too reliable in this sense to get everything sorted out.

Maybe if we have a reliable source that could clearly show them that this is a common problem in the jazz, this would help alot in getting them steered in the right direction.

**Poeter** · 20-04-2006 07:18 PM

My manual gearbox just done 20k mileage and just got my car serviced today.

It still feels smooth imo. Only time my car jerks is when i release the clutch a bit too early.