Is it valve noise or pinging? [Euro]

[MalGib]

Let me set the scene ... accelerating in 2nd gear, upward incline in the road, as the tacho passes 3500rpm ... clickity-clack clickity-clack from the engine ... change to 3rd ... noise stops. My Euro does this every now and then, but not consistantly ... when it does happen though, it's nearly always in 2nd gear, on an uphill run and when the revs get to about 3500 rpm and above.

OK for those of you who remember ... its sounds very much the same as the old cam-in-block engines with poor/dirty hydraulic valve lifters or push rods / valve stem / valve spring distortion noises when under load with a worn engine.

My Euro has only 5300km on the clock, so I'm ruling out the worn engine. I've not had a car that 'pinged' before so I'm only guessing it might be that. I've only used Caltex Vortex 95 RON since new.

Anyone know what it might be? Thanks

[yfin]

Do you always get your fuel at the same place?

It is hard to say definitively it is the fuel but I would try something else - of the 98 ron variety.

Some smaller petrol stations don't sell a lot of premium and it sits in the underground tanks for a long time so the RON drops off a little. This wouldn't be an issue with large sites that do huge volumes.

Water in fuel is also something that happens eventually to many petrol stations.

[MalGib]

Always use the large 'mega' sized Caltex stations in Sydney, although I filled up yesterday from the one in North Ryde ... first time in a long time. Dont like filling up there, always got my worst fuel consumption figures on my previous cars from that one ... makes me suspicious ...

The noise has happened before when I've filled up from my regular 'large' Caltex stations in the Sydney north-west. Fuel card supplied by my employer, so makes it expensive for me if I fill up on any other brand! Will try 98RON next time, but still concerned about that 'valve'(?) noise from the engine.

[dsp26]

this is why alota ppl carry a bottle of octane booster in the glove compartment. as said test it first.

you can easily induce knock/pinging/detonation by going up say a westfields carpark ramp in a higher gear and putting the car in load (by WOT) at say 4th/5th gear while going really slow up the ramp....

as said by yfin, its hard to tell the shit some petrol stations have. i know of a person that had a bomb tuned to accept only 98oct otherwise it would ping. this he did before he filled up his beast.. lol!!!



i highly doubt its your valves tapping on the pistons as you would either:
- have a hole/dent in your piston
- bent valve
- damaged rocker

^ the latter 2 would cause poor idle from air leak into the combustion chamber

[dsp26]

also knock can cause by a myriad of things which include leaning cause by:
- blocked fuel filter
- screwed fuel pressure reg


the only other thing i know (which i've only experienced once in a 4AGE) is misfiring in any of the cylinders.... causes all sorts of noises and struggles/stalls uphills.

But yes these are just the many scenarios. please do the Octane test first!!!

[aaronng]

Also, as far as I know, the K24A3 has a knock sensor. So when pinging is detected, the ignition and timing is retarded. It could be the sound of a retarded engine that you are hearing, as pinging or knocking does sound like a metalling ping.

I'd say, try a tank (or half) of 98 RON. If it stops making the noise, then it could be pinging.

[dsp26]

^^^on top of what you said though if it was the case, i'd be worried about WHY its retarding??? the only thing i can really think of is that those things can get sensitive as when faulty!!! especially if there really is something else vibrating real bad.

[petsfact]

sorry to hijack the thread, i also experience similar problem but it only happends when i downshift to 3rd gear from 5th (only tried 3rd before) at relatively high speed. i.e 80 or 90km/h and full on accelerate. car won't push and gives clicking noise when window is down.

[dsp26]

sorry to hijack the thread, i also experience similar problem but it only happends when i downshift to 3rd gear from 5th (only tried 3rd before) at relatively high speed. i.e 80 or 90km/h and full on accelerate. car won't push and gives clicking noise when window is down.

when you downshifted from 5th to 3rd what did the RPM shoot to? could have been coil bind of valve springs from too high RPM... but thats jumping the gun. you have to provide more detail.

[yfin]

Let me set the scene ... accelerating in 2nd gear, upward incline in the road, as the tacho passes 3500rpm ... clickity-clack clickity-clack from the engine ... change to 3rd ... noise stops. My Euro does this every now and then, but not consistantly ... when it does happen though, it's nearly always in 2nd gear, on an uphill run and when the revs get to about 3500 rpm and above.

Hey Malgib I just remembered something. A long time ago I noticed I had some vibrating sounds under the bonnet (only at certain RPMs and only from time to time). I discovered that the fuse box lid was not on properly (above the air filter) and was rattling. Check that and your air box screws.

And do you have an Icebox? Sometimes I get some vibration sounds from that too.

I think Aarong is right re pinging - it would certainly be unusual if you are using 95 ron. Maybe if you were using 91 ron but not 95.

[panda[cRx]]

take it back to your dealer and go for a test drive with the service manager or one of the techs, they should be more helpful than any answer here. especially seeing as they will be doing the work on the car (if required, u could just be crazy)

[MalGib]

Thanks for your inputs everyone ... much appreciated. Going to do two things ... use 98RON every 2nd fill, and get the dealer to test drive the car when the problem is apparent. I am mighty suspicious that the bowsers marked Vortex 95 arnt always delivering 95RON ... have no proof but has been something I've had a bad feeling about for a long while. The V6 Camry ran very well on 95, but of course it was designed for 91RON so any deviation wouldnt cause it a problem. But I could tell by the loss of fuel economy ... happened when I used certain Caltex's but not from others. Now I suspect a pattern developing with the Euro ... those same Caltex's that yielded the lowest fuel economies with the Camry on 95RON also seem to be the ones where I get the 'pinging' noise as well. Will be staying away from those stations from here on.

dsp26 ... the valve noise I described in my first post of the thread we used to call 'valve bounce' ... and not 'valve tapping' ... of course the valves arnt hitting the tops of the pistons! ... the engine noise and problems would be a lot more serious if they were! ... like 'tap tap tap tap ... bang!' ... engine dead ... LOL!