Opinions on my planned 12-speaker setup for new 2006 civic

[chylld]

heyas

when i got my 06 the first thing that hit me was: this sound system sucks. i can't quantify how much the stock 4-speaker setup sucks, but i know it's hardly better than the 6-speaker setup i had in my old hyundai getz. so i'm planning a massive upgrade to the following system:

5.1 surround sound decoder
3 2.5" midranges across the dash (left, centre, right)
2 tweeters a bit back from the base of the a-pillar
2 woofers in the front doors
2 2-way speakers for the rear parcel shelf
1 subwoofer in the boot, under the floor
amplification as needed
sound deadening to floor, doors and boot as needed

the reason i want the midranges across the dash is to improve imaging, and help pull the sound forward - at the moment, all the sound is coming from the back due to the positioning of the front woofers. so i'd rather let the front woofers just handle the 80-400hz range where location isn't as important as it is with midrangers and tweeters.

i've 80% decided to commit to this project; if i do i'll have a budget of roughly 3k. with that in mind, i have a few questions:

1) i plan to mount the midranges in the dash, at the base of the windscreen. the speakers will be aimed up toward the windscreen. will the resulting sound be ok? this is a technique that mark levinson uses in lexus cars but i've heard it can make the music sound 'harsh'?

2) is it really worth going the extra for a surround decoder and the centre front speaker? or will left and right woofer-midrange-tweeters be enough?

3) is there a noticeable difference in SQ between say top-of-the-range kenwood/alpine and bottom-of-the-range rockford fosgate / boston acoustics? the price difference is jawdropping!

4) if there is enough space, is it ok to put the tweeters along with the midranges under the tweeter grills at the front left and front right? (is having them too close together a concern?)

5) any other comments?

thanks in advance!

[marte]

Question 2)You don't have too, it sounds like nice setup as is. Are you doing all this just for ur own pleasure or for shows also?

Question 3) Big noticable differance, the clarity, the level of pure bass,how much it can handle etc. how much you put it is what you get out.

[Slow96GSR]

What about processors, Eq's, X-overs? The decoder doesn't do it all. And 3k won't be enought to do it right and get good parts. I would say 1k on speakers easy, x-over is 350aud, eq's are 700aud a pair, depending on what you get, mine are 2 channel so I have 2, wire, amps, sub box, damping material, misc stuff. How about a head unit. I would love to see this happen and how it sounds, little hard in the U.S., but the idea sounds good just need a bit more planning. If you want to see what I would use and do pm me cuz I know most people want the cheapest and stuff they can get there. I tend to lean towards what works best!

[chylld]

marte: i haven't thought about entering into SQ comps, it sounds tempting but i have to say it's mainly for my own listening. i think i might indeed skip the centre channel, 6 front speakers should be enough to create good imaging.

if there really is a noticeable difference in quality of speakers with high-end brands, i'll gladly make the stretch. the last thing i want is to spend $2k more than i need to on a setup that only sounds 2% better

Slow96GSR: i think i will exclude the centre channel and thus the need for a surround decoder. for crossovers (for the front 3-way splits) i was hoping to buy a matched set where you get woofer+midrange+tweeter+crossover in one kit - i've seen these around before, just hope that the high-end brands have them. what do i need with respect to processors and eq's?

i know it sounds stupid, but i don't want to change the headunit as i want to keep the stock appearance (also because in the 06 the stereo is integrated into the dash, and the double-din dashpanel doesn't look good to me.) is it ok to just get a good amp with speaker-level inputs? or am i losing serious quality this way?

[micka]

Why do you want 5.1 channel? are you going to watch DVDs or listen to music DVDs in car? I asssume not as you're keeping the OEM CD player.

I think you'd be far better off installing 2-way (or 3-way splits if you so desire up front) and get them as close to perfect as possible, and add a sub as well. Get a 2 channel amp for the fronts, mono block for the sub. Leave the factory rears if you want and run them off the H/U.

Installation will cost a fair bit to get enerything in properly, but if done properly will image and stage extremely well (read a lot better than a half arsed 5.1 setup doing it properly would cost a fortune).

In my opinion (make of it what you will) simplicity is often the key to success, high quality products installed well should sound a lot better than fitting in heaps of lesser quality products.

[mugeneration]

3k wont get you a a very good system. I mean mines just for audio, its set me back almost 2gs, and its all pioneer stuff (i.e. good, but not THAT good). I mean you're going to lose half your budget just getting the DVD HU (sorry, im assuming you'll be running audio visual as you;re talking about getting the center speakers and whatnot). Basically itll get you sumthin good, but not jaw droppingly good. Wish i had 20gs to blow on a sound system lol.

[chylld]

good points guys i don't have any intention to play dvd's or surround music, i just wanted a centre front speaker because mark levinson uses one in lexus sound systems to help with the imaging/stereo separation or something. for me, it is, in a word, overkill

and micka has a very good point, better to have an 11 speaker setup done well than to have a 12 speaker setup done poorly.

are 3-way splits noticeably better than 2-way splits? the reason i thought 3-ways would be better was to help bring more of the 'image' of the music to the front of the car, because otherwise the midranges would be handled by the front woofers which are all the way down in the doors... or are tweeters up front at the base of the windscreen sufficient to solve the imaging problem? (should i get the biggest tweeters i can find in an effort to get them to cover more of the frequency range?

[micka]

and micka has a very good point, better to have an 11 speaker setup done well than to have a 12 speaker setup done poorly.

To be honest, i'd take it more simple than that. Two way components (or three ways) at the front and a single sub (oem or cheap rears if you want), 2 or 4 channel amp for the fronts, mono amp for the sub.
If you're willing to put the time and cash into proper installation and start with quality gear you should get good results.

Three ways will require a lot more work to install if you really want three ways, perhaps look at something like Dynaudio system 340/360, or a Morel 3 way set including the CDM54; They're a sealed midrange and will mean easier installation as they don't require an enclosure (although it will still be difficult to get "perfect", however the benefits are there). Installation is crucial.

[chylld]

well i've decided what i'm going to do - instead of taking it all in one hit, i'm going to split it up into stages. if at any stage i'm happy enough with the sq, i'll stop there and save myself potentially $k's

even though it was fun to think ambitiously at the start, i'll probably end up focusing most of my attention on the front splits since almost everyone agrees that's the most important part of the setup. i haven't decided which ones to get yet, although i have my eye on alpine type-x's (but am more than welcome to other suggestions).

if i really wanted to skimp i'd just wire the splits to the HU and call that the first stage - but i decided that the first stage should include an amp and for that i have my eye on the alpine f345. using this amp i can easily add a sub later on by bridging 3/4. if i then decide to go further and install rear coaxs in the shelf, i'll plug those into 3/4 and get a mono for the sub.

this way i won't waste any money. the only wastage would be if i'm happy enough with just upgrading the splits, in which case i could have gotten by with a smaller/cheaper amp.

however before i buy any audio equipment, my first task hasn't changed: sound proofing. i'm thinking of dynamat in all the doors, the boot and the floor, and extreme liner under the carpet as well. i also might put some more external sound dampening in the wheel wells.

time to action some of this - my girlfriend's starting to get angry at me for spending more time researching rms and spl and not spending enough time with her :P

edit: i'm not sure if the f345 takes speaker-level input - some places say they do but others say they don't. if they don't, i'll get the navone line level adaptor/line driver, only $40 or so and apparently it works quite well. and if i go to upgrade the rears i'll get another one of these for those.

[JaCe]

Stages is definitely what I'd do- I'm just trying to figure out where you plan to install everything; remember that our dear Civic 06 has a very tightly integrated dash and I'm inclined to think any attempt to remove it could have a lot of issues with warranty and safety. My father's friend attempted to remove an integrated dash on another car (can't remember which one) and the dealer refused to service it...

Anyhow, back on topic, if you want to hear RF, check out Lifestyle in Parra- I got my RF sub/amp installed by them and it's fantastic. For one, RF amps look very classy in my opinion;



... and the quality is very good. They always seem to understate their specs- for example, my amp was rated at 50 rms per channel, but the testing spec sheet included in the box 98+ rms; nearly double the quoted figure. The subwoofer, whilst low-powered (150w RMS) sounds fantastic. The other thing which they have is a mini equalizer which you install in your car (it's basically a knob which adds "bass" to the EQ)- you'd be surprised how useful this is when you listen to different types of music which require different amounts of bass.

Btw end of year I'm planning on adding some RF splits up front- there's a really good set.. can't remember model number off top of my head but they were 6.5" with twin-tweeters (can be mounted as coaxial+tweeter if you want). Apart from that haven't really planned much more. Will change rear speakers in good time though!

Good luck with your installs- pls post here more! Maybe we can learn a few things from each other's experiences with the 06 Civic.

[chylld]

well i'm a nutter for silence so there's actually a zero stage before the first stage in my post above... sound deadening i intend to do all the doors, the floor and the boot with about 2 bulk packs of dynamat extreme, and also put extreme liner under the carpet and after that, maybe spray a bit more sound dampening into the wheel wells (if needed). that'll cost me about $1k all up, i intend to do it myself though once i figure out how to take the car apart properly!

i think the RF splits you're referring to are the P162S - i have my eye on those as well

[JaCe]

Haha yep that's the model.

Although wait until you hear it in person... there are some other speakers in that price range which are quite good (MB Quart something arather Discus?; and Boston Acoustics S60)... the S60s are definitely the inferior in this comparison but the cheapest I'd say; as for MB Quart and the RF P162S- they produce different sound... I'd say the RF is sharper; whereas the MB Quart sounds more balanced? I guess with an EQ and tuning they'll both be very capable speakers. If you can save up a bit more; the $1000-range speakers sound considerably better than these- and might even save you money/effort by reducing the number of speakers you need. I'm inclined to think 12 speakers will be a hassle both to install and to figure out where to put 'em when for the same budget you could get better speakers with simialr results.