Power FC for B18C2.

[tinkerbell]

Does it log the data in the ECU/controller, or does it just return realtime values?

I don't see the point in the handcontroller for the myriad of other adjustments as the tuner would sit down with a laptop, with the proper software, as would the end user if they're serious about tuning.

no "logging" with the HC, only realtime data...

it does do a "map trace" though...

you need 3rd party device for proper datalogging though, it is called FC-datalogit...

[sr3]

Well my brother started off with a PowerFC in his dc2r and ended up with Hondata s300 and he has never looked back.
My brother turboed charged his dc2r but the PowerFC (already in the car when he brought it) just couldn't delivery a daily driving environment, it would surge and jolt and drive very irregularly and he had it tuned by every possible method from the hand controller to laptop software by loads of different workshops, it was the PowerFC limitations which caused problems, not who tuned it. The cold start was very annoying to say the least, and fuel economy was just through the roof. Sure it was drivable but shocking when you directly compare how the car drives now using Hondata s300.

One key point that attracted him to upgrading to Hondata before even looking at the tuning side of things was the feature of boost cut off.
Boost cut off, saves you from over boosting your engine, this is a fantastic feature and very important for boosted cars, as it provides protection for your engine if your turbo creates too much boost.

Hondata also has a lot more points that can be tuned, in fact when he did his research it was more than double the tune'ing points when compared to PowerFC. Is this important, VERY MUCH SO. The extra degree to fine tune his car made such a huge difference in the way the car drove when in boost and out of boost, the higher resolution Hondata delivered provided a much smoother, torquey and responsive drive.

My brother also installed an intercooler spray, which is also controlled by Hondata, something PowerFC won't do either. He now has setup to spray water onto his intercooler when ever he is over 80% throttle in 3rd and 4th gears, another very useful feature.

Hondata also is fully scaleable to run 3 bar or 5 bar map sensor and run more boost than PowerFC, this wasn't important to my brother at the time as he was only running 8psi below the limit of the standard map sensor used by Hondata and PowerFC. But now he is building his engine to handle more boost he requires the features of Hondata to use a 3 bar map sensor so he can run large amounts of boost.

As for comparing the PowerFC having a hand controller, that shouldn't even come into it. The Hondata s300 software is far superior with its natively supported a laptop environment you just plug up a laptop via USB and have amazing access to the ECU it couldn't be easier. The PowerFC hand controller is very small, its like a game boy and it only remembers what load points you were in you can't adjust anything in real time. Hondata by its self is all your need and is much cheaper than buying a PowerFC plus also buying the Apexi software or FC Edit Software, and still when you use the FC edit software on the PowerFC the features are not even close to what Hondata offers.

Then you have the other standard features of Hondata which have already been covered such as datalogging, launch control and flat shifting, and there are a lot more features than that also, but that's enough of a comparison for now, do the research like we did and choose the best product you can! In our case it was Hondata s300. Hondata IS A CLEAR WINNER over the PowerFC both on Paper and the way it worked.

[BiGANG]

have you got graphs with both tunes with a/f?

[online]

This thread is funny! good read..

[LowEk]

This thread is funny! good read..

it would be for you boys at online. you know your p00.

[ginganggooly]

Didn't want to attempt this one at work, so here's the belated response...

nope, never mentioned that, read again

Okay, i've taken your advice and i still get stuck at, "as my research appears to be leading me to a different conclusion..." In reference to a statement by another member suggesting that his research presented the Hondata as a superior unit. I realise that different doesn't equate to opposite, but it can easily be construed that way. So to end all confusion, in the context of your original post, does different mean different as in one unit being no better or worse than the other, or does different mean opposite.


i am up fro a PowerFC/Hondata swap - but who to pay for tuning?

My guess is that if someone is willing to come to the party and agree to purchase the ECU based on the result of the shootout, the tuner may be a tad more accomodating towards this comparo. Obviously this represents a can of worms, and there are a million ways for this deal to go pear-shaped, but it'd work if everyone was as simple as i am...

but who knows? maybe that is too presumptious? maybe Hondata is the best, and no-one is telling us in an objective factual way?

You aren't going to get an unbiased response, because at the end of the day people will either defend their purchasing decisions, defend their mates' decisions or argue for or against a product based on their feelings towards the distributor of the product. The only people that are worth listening to on this topic are the tuners, and they studiously avoid taking sides in these arguments.

and how do you weight each of the pros and cons in order of importance?

All i can see is cost vs result. What are the pros and cons of each system as you see it?

is full throttle lauch more desirable than a hand controller?

The hand controller is a gimmick plain and simple. A tuner would need to sit on the dyno for 6-8 hours to tune a car from scratch using a hand controller. Most serious tuners would be using the proper desktop software, making the handcontroller a redundant "feature".

A S200 with datalogging and a cheapo palm unit provides proper data-logging for a very low cost. How much is the FCdata-logit?

maybe for a drag racer, buit not a daily driven street car?

What is the value of a hand controller for a daily driver? If it can't data-log, what use is it for either road or track?

and when determining "best", how does one factor in cost?

How do you factor cost into any automotive performance related purchase?
It's always going to be a balancing act between anticipated results, marketing of the product and overall cost. Some people will pay a premium price for a premium product eg. Autronic. Others -myself for example- are far more price sensitive.

and how much difference does less "tunable points" actually mean?

I have no idea. I have assumptions of what tunable point are, but i don't believe it is as simple as that.

and what is the end goal?
MAX horsepower? best area under curve? smoothest idle? best fuel economy? least knock? best cold start? shortest tuning time?

What is the end goal for pretty much anyone purchasing an aftermarket ECU?
At the end of the day it's about making the motor use the available fuel more efficiently, thus making more power, while delivering improvements in economy and throttle response. I don't know of anyone that purchased an ECU based on tuning time, but if they were to use that as a yardstick, i'm fairly certain that a PowerFC tuned via handcontroller would be somewhere down the back of the pack.

[saxman]

He now has setup to spray water onto his intercooler when ever he is over 80% throttle in 3rd and 4th gears, another very useful feature.

well, that's arguable...


lots of good info there...

so let me throw this wrench into things... hondata vs uberdata/crome vs power fc

[ALLMTR996]

well, that's arguable...


lots of good info there...

so let me throw this wrench into things... hondata vs uberdata/crome vs power fc

Gee and I was just thinking this thread was going to die.Welcome back saxman ya trouble maker
ALLMTR996

[AH_HUH]

imo if i was spending about 1000bux i would like to get a complete computer, not a rechipped ecu or piggy back. i would choose a brand that has been around and trusted time and time again. then i would think realistically if i needed "launch control" "data logging" "anti lag" etc if i were to chase only a small amount of power.

Although i was going to use an autronic ecu after i used the power fc but then scrapped the project, i think the power fc did everything i needed. scott from insight services (02 9621 2411) tuned my turbo dc2r to 268.5kw@wheels on c16 with 16psi and saw 212kw@wheels on 98pump with 11psi (ALL WITH STANDARD INTERNALS). It does not surge or jolt irregularly, cold start was like it was never touched, and fuel economy... i still mananged to do 350km's on a full tank at 11psi all day everyday and i have a very heavy foot at the traffic lights . Still managed to pull a 12.2quarter but how fast do u really wanna go? i started to snap parts like the driveshaft and lsd. but at the end of the day it was just a power fc without datalogging... launch control... anti lag...

Some people like to hide who tunes their cars or what they have under the bonnet, but who cares... id rather see more quick cars out there and share the info and experience i got from it.

my 2 cents.

[saxman]

from my experience in tuning cars, datalogging is an absolute must. I really can't imagine tryign to get a good tune from just watching the a/f print out...


Also, what's wrong with the fact that hondata chips the stock ecu... it's taking an extrememely well engineering item, and giving you complete control over it. It's as much a standalone ecu as any other... can't really compare it to a piggy back. Although I can understand not wanting to spend that much money for it... I suppose that's the benefit of uberdata/crome... get all those nice options without having someone bend you over and do you raw

[AH_HUH]

i didnt say there was nothing wrong with the hondata product, i was giving my 2 cents on what i thought about spending a thousand bux on an ecu. if i had said apexi is the bomb and nothing was better then it then i wouldnt of mentioned changing to an autronic which costs $5500. im sure u can tell the difference in a good tune or a bad tune by driving it. my first tune was done by hark automotive and that had blackspots in the middle of the revrange. Hondata is as much standalone as any other but atleast u'll have a standard ecu spare if the job was to be reversed or if you chose to sell it. When i put my car back to standard i didnt have to retune it at all, just plug and play with the original ecu which saved me another $500.

[tinkerbell]

Can anyone here define how different the HONDATA and power FC really are ?

no, i cant *define* it,

but here is a table i made up comparing features:

http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell/ECU%20Features.htm

here is one for NA 'street only' car:

http://home.exetel.com.au/tinkerbell...uresStreet.htm