[Euro] Hondata Update

[johnprocter]

whats up with the jtune website?? i was interested in getting the ECU tune now that i have I/H/E done... where in sydney can i get it done?

[Darkii_]

its still up?

http://www.jtune.com.au/price.html

[Chris_F]

after dissing the greddy emanage for ages and not liking piggy back ecus...

i did alot of research on the greddy ultimate...

and i have changed my thinking... the greddy ultimate is not your typical piggyback ecu... it doesnt alter signals before they get to the ecu like traditional "interceptors"... but instead it sits between the ecus output and the car functions input... example:

Stock ECU --> GReddy Ultimate --> Injectors

by doing this, not only can you add or increase fuel/ignition, but you can retard...

and the stock ECU can not relearn because it doesnt know its doing any different!

in addition to this, features like being able to clamp or alter the MAP and throttle sensors, means the car can be forced to stay in open loop mode for complete control... or you could even add turbo/super charger without problems

with the addition of v-manage, you can control VTC... comparing Ultimate + Vmanage and K-Pro in terms of VTEC and VTC tinkering, they are both nearly identical in what they can do!

yes this ViPEC thing looks awesome, but if its a replacement ECU, it wouldnt be able to control the euros dash...

You're seeing the light! I really think an e-manage ultimate would do wonders for your car and help get it running right. $1500 well spent (though probably more given the exchange rate).

The Vi-Pec is a full replacement ECU, but an experienced workshop will be able to keep the stock ecu wired in to control the dash and any other non-engine related features. The e-manage ultimate + v-manage is still a a step behind what the Vi-Pec and K-pro can do.

e-manage ultimate: 16x16 mapping, only has fully independent control of ignition (doesn't it?). Also the V-manage is another $1k installed and tuned along side the ultimate. Fully installed and tuned you're already at $2500 and that's a conservative cost estimate. The advantage is, it's tried and tested and will definitely be able to maintain the factory VSA.

Vi-Pec v44: 32x32 mapping for fuel and ignition, fully independent control of all engine functions, full VTC control out of the box, full sequential ignition (1 ignition output for each spark plug) and ability to work with tf-electronics drive by wire controller to allow you to controll the throttle directly (idle speed, throttle opening vs. pedal position etc.). The downside is it's not tried and tested on the Accord Euro. It's also highly unlikely that the factory VSA will be maintained. But the Vi-Pec does come with a traction control out of the box. Installed and tuned I was quoted about $2600 max.

The owner of vi-pec also owns another company called tf-electronics they make an electronic throttle controller:

http://www.tfelectronics.com.au/Page...lecontrol.html

on the site it says it works for XR6 turbo and Subaru WRX Sti, but I've contacted the owner and he says it's capable of working on some honda applications. It's probably what I'll be using on my car along with a vipec v44. (The v88 has the hardware built in for drive by wire but they're yet to finalise/release the software that lets you use it). The way this unit works though... it lets you use any after market ECU with a DBW car.. ANY. Just what the doctor ordered

IMO, when your looking at $2500 for an ultimate + v-manage, $2600 for the Vi-Pec seems like a no brainer.

[EUR003act]

the emanage ultimate does have fully independant control of ignition and injectors

it also has sequential ignition... and air temp compensation tables...

yeah it is only 16x16 mapping, but benefit is it has two sets of injector and ignition tables... so just like k-pro, you can have tuning for low and high cam

vi-pec sounds good, but when it comes to tuning, as you say, emanage is tried and tested...

maybe you should get the vi-pec hehe be the guinea pig for us all!

[Chris_F]

the emanage ultimate does have fully independant control of ignition and injectors

it also has sequential ignition... and air temp compensation tables...

yeah it is only 16x16 mapping, but benefit is it has two sets of injector and ignition tables... so just like k-pro, you can have tuning for low and high cam

vi-pec sounds good, but when it comes to tuning, as you say, emanage is tried and tested...

maybe you should get the vi-pec hehe be the guinea pig for us all!

Damn, then it's even better than I thought.

I'm not sure what you mean about having one map for the low cam and the high cam though. Having two sets of maps on the ultiamte means you can change between two maps, one for street/one for the track or one for 95 octane/one for 98 octane (that sort of thing). You tune the entire RPM range with one 16x16 map (256 tuneable points). That's how I understand it anyway.

Yep, someones always gotta be the first to try something, and I'm dealing with a reputable workshop so I don't mind if that's me. I'd rather have an ecu with built in VTC control than having to go for a ultimate + v-manage setup (which is also untested).

[EUR003act]

Damn, then it's even better than I thought.

I'm not sure what you mean about having one map for the low cam and the high cam though. Having two sets of maps on the ultiamte means you can change between two maps, one for street/one for the track or one for 95 octane/one for 98 octane (that sort of thing). You tune the entire RPM range with one 16x16 map (256 tuneable points). That's how I understand it anyway.

Yep, someones always gotta be the first to try something, and I'm dealing with a reputable workshop so I don't mind if that's me. I'd rather have an ecu with built in VTC control than having to go for a ultimate + v-manage setup (which is also untested).

if you've ever played around with k-pro... it has two sets of tables... one for when the engines on low cam, one for high cam... the same can be done with emanage... yes, normally one table is for street and one for race... but you can wire the seletor switch into the vtec output, so evertime vtec engages, its flicks over to the second map

yeah VTC is definately something worth controlling... i read somewhere (from a few different tuners) that in the K-series all the power is had from VTC tuning and not so much the VTEC engagement point...

[Chris_F]

if you've ever played around with k-pro... it has two sets of tables... one for when the engines on low cam, one for high cam... the same can be done with emanage... yes, normally one table is for street and one for race... but you can wire the seletor switch into the vtec output, so evertime vtec engages, its flicks over to the second map

yeah VTC is definately something worth controlling... i read somewhere (from a few different tuners) that in the K-series all the power is had from VTC tuning and not so much the VTEC engagement point...

I guess the advantage of that is that you can tune the entire rpm range on the low cam then the entire rpm on the high cam. Then you could change the vtec point to whatever you want without having to retune anything.

Yea having a variably timed cam is a pretty neat feature. Even the 10 second honda drag cars in the states keep the VTC functioning to help dial in the intake cam.

I was considering getting an Integra 50* VTC mechanism but have decided against that because of potential clerance problems and I don't know of any reputable machine shops that would be able to properly machine the standard 25* VTC to 45*.

More aggressive cams usually require less advance anyway so 25* shouldn't be too bad with some stage 2 cams.

Another thing I just realised, apparently the e-manage ultimate is unable to raise the rev limiter on the accord euro as the standard ECU won't let it. In your car with the upgraded valve train in the integra head you would be able to rev to at least 7600rpm and maybe even 8000rpm all day long so it'd be a shame not to take advantage of that.

[EUR003act]

Another thing I just realised, apparently the e-manage ultimate is unable to raise the rev limiter on the accord euro as the standard ECU won't let it. In your car with the upgraded valve train in the integra head you would be able to rev to at least 7600rpm and maybe even 8000rpm all day long so it'd be a shame not to take advantage of that.

yeah that is one thing i want to look at...

i know the emanage can eliminate rev limiter on cars that use an injector cut... (which the euro does) but i think it also shuts the TB...? im not 100% on that yet, im going to have to do some testing to find out whether thats possible...

[Merlin086]

I've probably said too much already to take the chance of my ECU not "going missing" or some similar catastrophe occurring (it could get fried!) , and then I might not have a car for months....

My first option would be to replace the exhaust with another performance system, and retain the ECU flash as is.
As it is, the exhaust system could be replaced in a few hours...the ECU is a different matter.....

As you see, I am between a rock and a hard place...

I thought I had better write up a carefully worded outcome to my extreme package dilemma, as I have had a number of people PM me as to the outcome.

I've been avoiding posting in case I say something in contravention of the gag order I had to sign in order to get my refund for my headers.

I had a custom set manufactured by their dealer APC Racing in Brisbane.They did a excellent job, and did the required mods to stop the rubbing on the chassis and so far no welds have seperated...

Although I have been told that having these fitted will now void the warranty on the rest of the exhaust system. I'm confused because after it was fitted and paid for in Nov 07, I was told that it would be replaced with a new one in Jan 08 because the one fitted to my car still had manufacturing faults and was actually a prototype.
Hmm....how can I lose a warranty on a temporary part while still waiting for the final system?

At the time of fitting the headers the installer also advised me that a weld on the exhaust is now starting to crack. More repairs!



So, that's the current episode.....partially resolved........

[Crapdaz]

I thought I had better write up a carefully worded outcome to my extreme package dilemma, as I have had a number of people PM me as to the outcome.

I've been avoiding posting in case I say something in contravention of the gag order I had to sign in order to get my refund for my headers.

I had a custom set manufactured by their dealer APC Racing in Brisbane.They did a excellent job, and did the required mods to stop the rubbing on the chassis and so far no welds have seperated...

Although I have been told that having these fitted will now void the warranty on the rest of the exhaust system. I'm confused because after it was fitted and paid for in Nov 07, I was told that it would be replaced with a new one in Jan 08 because the one fitted to my car still had manufacturing faults and was actually a prototype.
Hmm....how can I lose a warranty on a temporary part while still waiting for the final system?

At the time of fitting the headers the installer also advised me that a weld on the exhaust is now starting to crack. More repairs!



So, that's the current episode.....partially resolved........

thats so stuffed, but at least its half resolved. goodluck with the rest mate...

[yfin]

A confidentiality agreement in exchange for a refund on a faulty product.

That speaks volumes about the people who run Jtune. Instead of looking after customers and making them happy - do whatever you can to shut them up.

[tony1234]

A confidentiality agreement in exchange for a refund on a faulty product.

That speaks volumes about the people who run Jtune. Instead of looking after customers and making them happy - do whatever you can to shut them up.

Yeah it's a pity.It all sounded so promising.Au version of Hondata.(the reflash gets such a good rap over in the states)then all we get is empty promises,over inflated prices and products of dubious quality.