so what do you think about the JDM CTR and the Sport Civic in here?:oQuote:
Originally Posted by NeoNode
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...lleryext05.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...pz4148/213.jpg
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so what do you think about the JDM CTR and the Sport Civic in here?:oQuote:
Originally Posted by NeoNode
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...lleryext05.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...pz4148/213.jpg
thats the thing with the jap one, all the internals and sus, interior ect are type R and great!, but from the outside just looks like a riced up civic with bolt on cosmetics from autobarn!Quote:
Originally Posted by GupZ
LOL...i can't help but notice, that lots of ppl are still staying in 10 years b4:pQuote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
yay!!! spot the difference!!!! :p
1. Honda badge
2. Honda Grill
3. Fog Lamp
4. Side Mirrors
5. Wheels (its rotating to fast on the CTR, cant tell what brand :p)
6. Rear Wing
7. Seats (sports seat vs Cheapo Leather)
8. Sunroof
Do I win anything? :p
Unbelievable man~:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by MKI4EVA
I don’t hear people complaining about STIs look a riced up RS…Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
conclusion is we WANT JDM CIVIC TYPE R !!! IN AUSTRALIA!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
I don't really care, I pretty much took what you said and replaced JDM with European and somehow the statement still holds true. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by GupZ
LOL...Wotever guys
Fixed ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
I have nothing against you guys, but being so strongly biased is not cool.
your not cool lolQuote:
Originally Posted by NeoNode
JDM>UKDM>AUDM
AHAHhAHHAQuote:
Originally Posted by [[d a n n y]]
Haha i'm not in denial or hypocritical like some FN2 owners on this forum either LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by [[d a n n y]]
But you know Danny, the truth hurts HAHAHA!
Do u know what u are talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by GupZ
this CTR can beat all previous typeR plus match up and tailgate a NSX typeS on track @ Best Motoring
Dont tell me it is how u tell you customers when u are back in the old days while DC2R or DC5R were just out.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
the Magic of R speaks for itself
Just let it go man, lol the amount of bias in this thread is disturbing.Quote:
Originally Posted by 350G
Neither side will budge, so there's no use haha.
honda needs a hot hatch, because that market is untapped by them ever since the ek4 (vti-r) stopped selling.
Also need a "sports" sedan so it can make sense that honda au would sell both concurrently.
I like your theory hehe...
nah i moved on from the old days...Quote:
Originally Posted by 350G
:D
please note, autobarn not sell 4-pot brembo brakes, rear wing with real carbon fiber part and legendary 18" type-r wheels (white)Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
but this place sell :):):)
http://www.gtmotoring.com/civic-fgfd-jdm.htm
but they sell brembo covers, fake carbon vinyls and 18in white spinners, those should make a pretty authentic replica...
LOL. I don't think he really means "autobarn sells it", he is just quoting an example that the FD2R looks like an ordinary civic which is souped up with exterior parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmx
Anyway it is really a challenge for Honda Australia to get it, as according to Temple of VTEC, Honda Japan's R&D development team will point to the UKDM CTR for any requests for the JDM CTR and say "The european CTR is what is made for your market." Still a long way to go for negotiations and this is by no means a certainty.
45k is at edge of reasonable. 50k is not reasonable price. You cant charge something at more than 2 times the price of base model, its not that different.Quote:
Originally Posted by 350G
Of course cannot comapre with Aurion. Aurion is a whole class up! in size and engine capacity. So should be more expensive than a Civic.
Ummmm Holden and Ford :p ...oh wait, more like 3x !Quote:
You cant charge something at more than 2 times the price of base model, its not that different.
Maybe thats why we got the FN2R...to create that extra little bit of differentiation over the range of civics we already have here.Quote:
And I can't help but notice, that the European CTR looks just like their normal base model counterparts, no matter how fast it is.
but then most Holden/Ford loyalists are not the most rational consumers or intelligent humans, actually where we come from we call them as morons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaso
Agreed. We dont need any more FD shaped 4 door honda shape sedans in Australia. The streets are already overrun with Accord Euros and Civics, sometimes I feel like Im stuck in a Honda sponsored game when driving on the streets. Its obsurdQuote:
Originally Posted by Jaso
bring in something new and exciting.
If you read the quote within that reply, then you would know I was taking the piss out of certain forumers for their strong bias.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaso
That's gold!:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMVTEC
nnot really...maybe you should join them :thumbdwn:Quote:
but then most Holden/Ford loyalists are not the most rational consumers or intelligent humans, actually where we come from we call them as morons.
Dont think its fair you make a blanketing, sweeping statement like that. Try towing a boat or caravan in your Civic :wave:
I said most, not all. MOST
I think a lot of Honda owners are morons too, if that helps.
They are not old days. The days still exist of us who want a Track car from the factory, which Honda used to provide.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
"Honda Australia managing director and CEO Yasuhide Mizuno told Wheels. “I think Australian people love racing and young people like these high performance vehicles."
The JDM CTR is one of these. Let's hope it comes here. Things like built-in Oil Coolers and baffled Oil sumps show it's intent.
However, I am not bashing the FN2, it fits a market and I'm sure is a great drive. I do not believe that it's primary purpose is to be a track car, but that is totally fine, it is still a great car for the people it is aimed at. Two different aims, two different cars. See the difference and let each be!
ur right chuck, as i said b4 it will be good having 2 cars to cater for both kinds of cutomers.
If they really come, I can afford and I will order one stright away, but hopefully they just detune and don't remove the bambo brake! As we can easily modify the ECU to fix the detune, but it's very expensive and hard to get the original bambo brake.
I think enthusiast Type R owners are less concerned about appearances than what's under the skin. The way I see it, the FD2R basically has a form created by a function of it's requirement for aerodynamic considerations (e.g. that rear wing does actually create downforce) within a broader limitation of the main body panels in which (I would assume) it would not be economically viable to modify. Sure, the car has to have a sporting element about it's looks as well, but it shouldn't look as though a STYLIST has dictated the aesthetics, which, in my book is a big turn-off.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLS1
I think they did a good job with the FD2R as it looks sufficiently different to the standard car without being OTT with stylistic elements like silver painted fuel filler covers and shrouds around brake rotors to make it look bigger!
If we were more concerned about looks and cared little for substance, we'd probably all drive Alfa's.
:thumbdwn:Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMVTEC
I disagree. You should not generalize people/brands like that, every brand has their rotten apples.
that's why. aurion sx6, 200kw V6, only around 43k(onroad).so what for buying JDM/UKDM CTR ?:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMVTEC
if for towing caravan/boat, don't buy sedan, drive 4WD !:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaso
from bussiness prespective, YES! need a diversity of product.Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMVTEC
but sometimes theory and reality are different :confused:
Why is the Aurion even compared to the CTR?Quote:
Originally Posted by dmx
If you believe an Aurion SX6 is a "performance car" that could rival a CTR, then marketing at Toyota has done it's job.
Compare Apples with Apples, not Apples and Oranges.
Comparing power outputs is not one of them, nor is suggesting other cars that doesn't fit the target market.
you cant even compare apple to apples at the moment, ctr is at its own league with n/a engine rivaling armies of turbosQuote:
Originally Posted by NeoNode
Hot Hatch vs Hot Hatch is considered Apples vs Apples.Quote:
Originally Posted by sitta
While a Hot Hatch vs Family Car with bodykit is not.
Put it this way, is a Mercedes E55 vs BMW any less relevant than a Golf GTi vs CTR?
Look beyond just their engine aspiration of choice and you'll see they are designed to compete in the same market.
i say to honda australia bring the the damn car in...hence everyone is satisfied but you expect the car to be less than 50K.
Agree with you!!!! How can u compare Aurion with Civic??? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoNode
I believe you cant compare two different car no matter if both of them are N/A or Turbos, 2 doors or 4 doors, hatch or sedan, still an apple is an apple, a civic is a civic, a lancer is a lancer, cant compare one species with diff species :pQuote:
Originally Posted by NeoNode
hahah your theory is funny, maybe in the next olympics 100m sprint we should have asian compete with asian, white compete with white and so on...
Now you're just being silly, you might as well not compare anything because their names are different.Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
Here's an example, in your analogy which can't be compared based on "A Civic is a Civic, a Lancer is a Lancer..."
Toyota Aygo, Peugeot 107, Citroen C1.
But because with your analogy a Toyota Aygo is a Toyota Aygo, Peugeot 107 is a Peugeto 107 and a Citroen C1 is a Citroen C1, they can't be compared because you can't compare one species with a different species as you say.
But funnily enough all 3 cars are built by the same factory and share the same DNA underneath, yet are designed to look different, offering customers a choice, yet all 3 cars are targeted at one particular market.
But if I was to purposely leave that last bit of information regarding all three cars being the same underneath with a new skin, you would tell me they can't be compared ayes ;)
Haha Denot's analogy is more like, you have to be identical twins to be even considered Apple vs Apple. LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by xtercii
I sed "compare" not "compete" why you want to compare between runners @ 100m? I think compare and compete is two diff words dont they? Then again I might just being silly then (like NeoNode sed...)Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoNode
Do people not compare cars like they do with athletes to find which/who is better?Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
CTR vs Golf GTi, Michael Jordan vs Shaq?
In order to to find a winner from a comparison, do cars not compete in races or tests and athletes compete in competitions?
athletes and cars are not compete to find the winner of comparison... then again M.J. is a Guard and Shaq is a Center... can you compare them using your theory? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by NeoNode
anyway... after all this out of topic convo, I'm still happy if JDM CTR really comes to Oz... ^_^
com·peteQuote:
Originally Posted by denot
to strive to outdo another for acknowledgment, a prize, supremacy, profit, etc.; engage in a contest; vie: to compete in a race; to compete in business.
Now you're telling me to compare two cars does not mean they end up competing?
V8 Supercars comparing Holden against Ford (to compete in a race)
Magazines compare cars all the time, why would they bother with laptimes, 0-100km/h, braking distances etc etc.(engage in a contest)
Aren't these numbers compared across different cars to show who reigns ontop? (to strive to outdo another)
And please, I don't compare things based on a technicality. I see Michael Jordan and Shaq as athletes, likewise I see a CTR and Golf GTi as Hot Hatches, not a CTR is a CTR and a Golf GTi is a Golf GTi.
Here i'll make another example.
There's two athlete runners. Runner A and Runner B
I want to compare Runner A and Runner B against each other to see who is better.
And in order to compare Runner A and Runner B, they'll need to compete in a race of a 100m dash to the finish, how else am I going to know who is better if they don't compete?
If you still don't think Comparing and Competing goes hand in hand most of the time, especially with cars, then I have nothing more to say.
If you compare M.J. and Shaq as athletes, then you compare CTr and Golf as cars or hot hatches or 4 wheelers or items? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoNode
Don't be stubborn man, use common sense!Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
No shit you don't compare them as "Cars" because it's too general of a word.
So you be more specific and refer to such cars like the CTR and GTi as hot hatches, because they fit the criteria of being a hot hatch.
Ford Falcons, Holden Commodores fit the prerequisite of being family cars, and that's as specific as it needs to be.
You on the other hand, are being too specific, which makes your analogy look silly and absurd.
One would compare MJ and Shaq as athletes within the basketball genre if it needs to be more specific, but that's as far as you should go! Common sense would've told you that, instead of sitting there picking out technicalities, save that for the court room.Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
I could've used Golf, Swimming, anything really for my examples, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they cannot compete because they are not from the same race.
It's all common sense ffs.
this thread is going downhill
Was the "official" reason we didn't get the jap spec k20a in our DC5 due to 98 octane not being readily available?
Or is it that regardless of availability, 98 isn't good enough as 100 octane (or higher?) is available in japan?
if reason number 1 was the case, maybe with 98 octane being more more common the chances of us getting a less detuned version?
as a side, are the evos, sti's, ferrari's, etc that australia get all considered detuned?
It is comparing in a way, they are just putting a bunch of human being on a track to compare their sprinting ability by who crosses the line first and who has the fastest time. :D:D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by denot
The JDM k20a was tuned for 100RON. We only had max 98RON at the time and that was only in the major cities. As a result, Honda Australia probably specified that the engine be tuned to run on 95RON, hence the power decrease.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullabaloo
Ferraris are not detuned because they are imported under SEVS. They did that because the low sales numbers would ensure a high resale value and that they didn't have to do any crash testing for them over here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullabaloo
The AUDM STI's and EVO's are detuned. They make much less torque and power than the JDM ones (of course, JDM will always specify 208kW).
In regards to Australian petrol,at this time 100RON is not readily available,wasn't Shell going to release a 100RON containing ethanol?
The sulphur content of our petrol is too high and this is also causing problems with new engines being developed by eg Audi,BMW.that is ,can't run in Australia with our quality of petrol.
The Australian Governement needs to legislate and force the oil companies to produce fuel with low sulphur content,good for engines,good for the environment and good for climate change.Such a change in our fuel would at least eliminate one obstacle to Honda or any other car company in importing high performance vehicles ala JDM Civic Type R.
I won't hold my breath:D
For you technical buffs(I'm not one) some info about the engine of the FD2R-http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/FD2K20AR/index.html
100RON from 1 brand of petrol which is also not available at EVERY Shell station in the country does not count as widespread availability. If we want engines tuned to run on 100RON from the factory, every petrol station of every brand will have to start selling that first.Quote:
Originally Posted by fasthonda
No, it is not the sulphur. Sulphur will affect direct injection engines (like those from Audi, BMW, VW and Alfa Romeo's JTS). The K20A is not a direct injection engine, so all sulphur will do is contaminate your engine oil a little sooner.Quote:
Originally Posted by fasthonda
Our fuel is good enough. Even if sulphur reduces the octane rating, the fuel is still tested to 98RON, thus preventing pre-ignition. Honda Australia can decide to tune the FD2R for 98RON instead of the traditional 95RON like they have done. It just depends if they believe that there are enough petrol stations selling 98RON in the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by fasthonda
Ok then, what Honda is saying about our petrol then is a lie?they should have no problem bringing out the JDM CTR ie no tuning of the engine.If they have to detune it then the problem must be our fuel:confused:
JDM CTR is tuned for 100RON. We have only 98RON everywhere. Our 100RON is not available widely enough for them to consider bringing the FD2R still tuned for 100RON.Quote:
Originally Posted by fasthonda
At the end of the day theres very little anyone can do to influence weather the FD2R comes to Aus or not. A list of Honda enthusiast's names on a petition supporting the car coming here is very different to that same group of people handing over the sum of money it costs to buy that car...which would be more than the FN2R.
just detune it and bring it over already!!!
As much as I'd also love to see it get here to our shores, I still have doubts. I can't see them having two civic type r's here...
I think the biggest mistake they (Honda Australia) could make is to bring a downgraded (no brembros, etc) and detuned one here. If they brought a downgraded one then they might as well not bring one at all.
If the only difference was a slightly detuned engine (eg 154kw vs 166(?)kw jap spec) then I think it might do ok.
Well, Spoon already has an ECU mod for the FD2R, so if it was detuned, it would be easy to get it back to needing 100RON.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hullabaloo
Not sure about the Brembos, I hope that it does come here (who can resist 4-pots). But it is a longshot considering how Honda Australia likes to snip features out to either reduce the price or make more profit (happened with the Accord Euro and Legend).
well yeh.. Lets hope HOnda will keep the brembos for god dame sake if they happen to bring the FD2 here...
come on... hopefully they get the VOice from ppl in regards to DC5.
add another 2k on the price and give the guys the dame break man. i mean u gotta have some talkin points for the car since recaro and momo are gone. Brembos has to Stay..
well i hope my dream come true~~
It would be interesting how they will go about specifying FD2R if it arrives. Of course, we wouldn't want it to be diluted in any way, although the fuel issue will definitely be a consideration that will affect the power output.
Other issues I'd imagine would be whether the factory is capable of committing to modifying their production processes to accommodate whether the car will come with/without brembos etc etc for our market. Especially given they aren't producing them fast enough to meet existing demand, how does accomodating AU fit in to the overall scheme of things?. Balance that with what Honda Au's decisions will be on how they would want to price it,...someone may say that it would be acceptable to sell the car without some components (or go cheaper) to keep the cost of the vehicle down?!. There are so many factors in play we'll just have to see how it pans out. One good thing though : It is a good step that the AU CEO has publicly expressed enough of an interest within Honda AU in investigating this opportunity, as, even if nothing comes of it (touch wood!), that someone recognises that there are enthusiasts out there who appreciate what Honda are REALLY capable of producing as an innovative, engineering focused company worthy of our positive awareness with Type R.
If we use the AU DC5R as a history lesson, what has Honda Au learnt about the decisions regarding how this car was presented and what would this mean for how the FD2R could potentially arrive on our shores? Surely there are many different circumstances between now and then which one cannot use to draw any definite conclusions about how the FD2R may be influenced by what has happened in the past, but one thing they now know is that the Type R loyalist consumer is not so easily hoodwinked in to believing that simply placing a Type R badge can fool the buyer in to thinking that they are getting Honda's most perfomance focussed effort - did this affect their sales expectations with the DC5R? I really don't know what outcomes or lessons were learnt from this... maybe someone can comment on this.
I see the best outcome for us in the future, as a consumer and enthusiast is to start off with the JDM car as is, tuned for 98RON, and any small modifications for ADRs, but to keep all the other elements intact at a price up to $50K. That would be a very compelling value argument. Get some credible journalists on board to review and detail the car and more people would be aware that Type R really is something special. No other manufacturer makes cars like these anymore without going to the GT3 end of the market. What's even more impressive is that Honda can do it at a price which makes it accessible to more of the masses.
Hey Aaron, you might be best to answer this...Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
It seems the FD2R being released in Malaysia has the 165kw engine.
http://www.honda.com.my/
I thought maximum readily available RON in Malaysia was 97?
Does this mean Honda Australia are purely cost cutting if they detune? Thoughts?
with the currency conversion it cost around 65000 oz dollar on road in malaysia... shit...
Hahahah... but the other version of Civic is more expensive over there anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by sitta
how come in Langkawi its a lot cheaper??? AUD$40k
You should read WHY the FD2R is being released in Malaysia. Then you will understand why they are bringing in a 100RON engine into a country that sells only 97 RON. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd076-chuck
Anyway, at the price that it is being sold in Malaysia, the buyers would be rich enough to afford racing fuel (which can be purchased through the many thousands of work/tuning shops) anyway.
Langkawi is a tax-free island. Downside is you can't bring the car out of there. Langkawi also has very nice mountain roads and a small track. So if you are rich enough to have a house there, just keep the car there and fly up for the weekend for a fang. Did I mention that it is a small island and therefore there is almost zero traffic police there? They only have the regular cops that stay in the police stations that respond to emergency calls.Quote:
Originally Posted by denot
Guys,
you might think this could be purely speculation or may even be true but from a source I've received, this is the news (and please don't beat me up for this as I am purely passing on information that I have been told :) ):
Honda Australia is seriously considering bringing the FD2 into Australia. At the moment of course nothing is 100% but from what I have been told, those high above in the management level (of Honda Australia) who normally decide on bringing certain models and numbers into the country rarely make decisions which don't just go unjust.
The word is, once all the 1,200 FN2's are sold out that would be it for the FN2 CTR's. Yes, (from what I have been told) after the 1,200 FN2's are all gone there is a strong chance that Honda Australia will start bringing in the FD2.
Due to the not-so-much-hype and the cost of bringing these FN2 cars from the UK, obviously Honda Australia had to think of other alternatives and this may be it.
Fact: It is much cheaper to have cars shipped from Japan than it is the UK and surprisingly there were numerous inquiries about the 4-door (FD2) CTR than the current 2-door (FN2) CTR, by Honda fans like us.
Honda Australia isn't obviously confirming anything as the R&D department have to analyse all aspects of the car and its logistics. And one of the factors which all know about is the fuel quality that we have here compared to Japan.
So, if this is real 'information' then I'm sure it will be fantastic news for us Honda fans. And I will be lining up for one. :)
But if not, then as mentioned this is purely 'information' obtained from a car expert who knows someone from Honda Australia.
:cool:
Got a link?Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
I read the TOVA articles and the reasoning there is "The Civic Type-R is only the beginning and if it succeeds, it will lead to more such desirable models for Malaysia and elsewhere across the world."
So they want the car in full effect to really show people what Honda can do? Or because it will compete against the WRX and Golf GTI and it needs to be as competitive as possible? I assume with the TOVA quoted extremely limited numbers (10 units a month) running 100 RON can be justified as you say by tuning shops etc.
For those wanting to read TOVA article.
http://asia.vtec.net/news/myJDMCTR/index.html
http://asia.vtec.net/news/myJDMCTR/index1.html
PS - Many thousands of tuning shops... that sounds pretty cool, I don't know much about the Malaysian tuning scene. :)
If the UK CTR keeps selling, why not keep bring it in? No need to drop it because they want the sedan.
I am interested to know how they will position the JDM CTR. Will it be a WRX competitor or STI/EVO competitor? If you look at the kit, its definitely STi like (brembos etc) but power is not really up there.
I also feel that 50K is far too high. $45k maybe but definitely no higher.
oh and its a dedicated 4 seater. Why not 5 seats??
if we do get the FD2 we better get it in Championship White
http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...page_number=1&Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd076-chuck
In this thread, "WongKN" is the same guy that runs Temple of VTEC Asia. It's solely because of him that Malaysia is getting the FD2R.
BTW, for about the 97 RON issue, : http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...icle_id=697986
I would be 1 of the first to order 1. I need the versitiliy of a 4 door sedan and i am not overly keen on the 2 door ctr, and that clear plastic below the reat spoiler....bad move.
its definately a honda cost decision, the euro is already bought in from japan, so why not bring the FD2 as well, in limited numbers to replace the hatch, or have both selling, but again in limited numbers...that way honda brings back the racing formula which honda was well known for back in the 90's! again 40-50K would be the price for this car
thanks! :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng