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My fuel economy was pretty average. I was babying it about (as it wouldn't warm up) and getting about 11ltr/100km. Now that it's fixed I drive normally with the occasional boot in and I get 9-10ltr/100km.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericx
So I'd say yeah, it could cause economy problems.
screwed thermo caused my car to run rich(er) and just run crap in general. didnt feel strong at all ( B18c7) and it took a couple of motorway trips to workout what was wrong.
If your temp DROPS on a long drive then change the thermo asap !
I've reset my ECU following Big'O's DIY and i finally see my temp go up a bit, but it still drops slowly when i run at 70km/h. So i guess i'm changing it no matter what. I bought the thermostat + gasket for $63 at Essendon Honda Parts store. Just one more question, what coolant should I use? original Honda coolants or any other coolants available?
Only use Honda coolant is what I've heard many times.
Roger :) how much is it? almost going broke, need a job...
I think it was about $35-$50, really can't remember sorry.
What are the implications of not using coolant and just using plain water? I've seen it happen with many cars...
You can use distilled water for minor top ups but too much of it will dilute the coolant. Water on it's own will corrode the engine and radiator quickly and I think coolant may have a higher boiling point also, someone correct me on that last one if I'm wrong.
radiator core will rott awayQuote:
Originally Posted by xenonkuraz
waterpump will fail
cylinder head water jackets on the head surface will corode away ( $$$$$)
head gasket could fail
water pipe from the back of the block from waterpump to thermostate housing will rust out.
all this will happen over time but some will happen sooner than others. even with crappy coolant the aove will occure over time.
5l $30 coolant from honda is cheap insurance
Well my DC2 had the same issues so I headed down to Southiside Honda and picked up a Thermostat then and having done this on my previous Civic in the past I figured I'd just do it myself.
Typical Honda really, easy job just tricky to get to.
Not to mention the drain plug for the radiator that was a real biatch, so much so that I wasn't sure if I had managed top get it back on tight enough.
As it turned out when I took it for her maiden voyage after the work the damn thing wasn't on tight enough so I jacked her up on the side of the road and got in there and have it all sorted now and she is running soooo much better it is amazing! :thumbsup:
If the thermostat is playing on you,
the bottom radiator hose will be more heated (hotter) compared to the top hose because the thermostat is blocking the water from coming up.
Another way to test it is, to take out the thermostat and put it in a cup of boiling hot water observe:
If the rubber expands the thermostat is fine.
If the rubber doesnt expand the thermostat needs to be replaced.
But since the thermostat is out anyway, I'd suggest to replace it to save you the trouble when it acts up later down the track.
does anyone use cardboard to cover the bottom half of the radiator?
I've never really had a problem with the car running cold.... hmmmm might be because its 40 outside? :D
Water temp is not related to VTEC kicking in. Oil temp, thus pressure is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da1nONLY
could someone just confirm that it is not necessary to drain the radiator when replacing the thermo stat
You are going to lose alot of water when you remove the pipe that leads to your thermostat so you might aswell use this as an opportunity to drain your radiator and fill it up with fresh water/coolant. However it is not necessary to flush the radiator when changing thermostat, however I recommend you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiet88
Either way expect a fair amount of water to run out so do it near a drain or something.
damn i just recently changed my coolant like 1500km ago
But if your coolant is keeping the oil too cool it wont activate, will it? I also thought that VTEC wouldn't switch to the high cam when the engine is cold as a safety feature.Quote:
Originally Posted by VTECMACHINE
i got an 98 integra vtir last week and i thrashed it for the first time and i dont think vtec kicked it. whats going on? i dont notice any change in power or anything it just revs up smoothly to 8k rpms.
I have found this to be true, even after 5 minutes of driving down a hill on a cold night, sometimes vtec won't engage until it's warmer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shraka
You probably don't want to be driving it that hard till it's warm anyway. The pistons, piston rings, and bore all change shape at different rates as they heat up. Your engine isn't actually tuned, or running properly, until it's warm.Quote:
Originally Posted by T-onedc2
I don't intend to, normally five minutes is heaps, but this time I got to the bottom of a long hill, at the intersection below decided to give some berries and nothing to show, obviously I noticed immediately and barely hit 5k and looked at the gauge and realised what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shraka
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by T-onedc2
so how fast should my car be if it hits vtec? cause im kinda new dis is my first car and i dont know how it should perform
Overall speed wont change,Quote:
Originally Posted by danny_2132
If you have a stock airbox take the top cover off and let the car warm up.
Once its completely warm go in 2nd gear and at roughly 6kish youll hear vtec kicking in (deeper sound).
If you can put your phone on the dash and close all the windows so we dont have air causing sound and record the sound.
i dont think i can do it today its raining im on my l's and my mum will know if ive taken da car out cause when she gets back it will be all wett... butt ill try it the next time i take itt outt
Make sure the car is warmed up otherwise vtec doesnt work.
Basically it will feel like it's actually worth revving all the way to redline, don't expect a kick at all, just a smooth transition. However in cold weather it's more noticable.Quote:
Originally Posted by danny_2132
well then ive hit it a few times... it feelss gud lol
That thermostat must be a teg thing, cause my dc2 did it when I first got it, and I even had the same problem with my old 87 teg. Both times it was apparently the thermostat sticking open
i just got this question as well on my 99 teg vtir....going to fix it up soon as i coundnt hear anything when the vtec should be kicked in....thats the problem.
Decided to read some of this thread as the guy I just bought my VTiR off said he had the thermostat replaced recently due to it running cold, it sits at about 1/3 or just over which seems like it should be right.
But speaking of the VTEC, on a bog stock VTiR, no exhaust, stock airbox, should the VTEC be audible when it comes on, or not really? I have only owned a VTi Civic before this, so never had the DOHC VTEC before and expected it to be quite a change in barkiness at about 4500rpm.....but doesn't really seem to be any noticeable noise change or power change......should it?
No you won't hear anything on a stock intake, and you should just feel it continue pulling toward redline with out dropping off in a B18C.
DC2 Vti-R has 2 switchover points, Vtec switchover and dual stage intake manifold switchover.
Correct me if I'm wrong (i got this from a honda brochure) but the VTEC switchover is approx 4400rpm and the manifld switches to a short tract from 5500 onwards.
Ive been shopping around for a dc2 vti-r and when I test drove one the other day, i noticed that it was running cold due to a faulty thermostat. It took it over 20 minutes to reach the halfway temp. mark and i could feel that it was inhibiting the correct operation of the VTEC. This is a common problem with pre-facelift ('93-97) VTI-Rs.
Secondary butterflies open at 5800.
See here, page 2 from Honda brochure:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...=107712&page=2
hmm yeah well i got a new mugen thermostat and used it for over 6000km... now (recently) its running cool when my engine has already warmed up... like 20% on the reading... what could be the prob? i don't suppose the thermostat has gone on me!?
im already to do my thermo change tomorrow but... where the air bleed bolt is suppose to be its not... is that normal for 99 vtir? would it be anywhere else?
can some please tell me roughly how long after the car has been turned on and driving should the engine temp be at 40%...as mine reaches 40% put takes a while to get there or i drive for like 15 mintues and it still sits near low...
Does it fluctuate??
I.E. when you sit in traffic it sits at the correct temp but when you start moving then it will move down lower. thats what happened with me and it never went hotter than about 1/3.
with a working thermo it shouldnt take very long to warm up, maybe 5 mins and it should reach operating temp.
anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by doonbar
do you mean the coolant drain tap? There's a tap at the bottom of your radiator but no air bleed.
nah the air bleed. it just doesnt have one. weird but i did the thermo change anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by T-onedc2
:thumbsup:
hey guys,
i think i have a similar problem with my vtir 94
the radiator is boiling, and the temp goes all the way to H...i had to stop the car to let the whole engine cool down...
and on idle, the temp rises to bout 3/4 to H, and revving at 1.500rpm, just on idle..sometimes at 2.
ive read the previous posts but those problems are either running under normal 40% temp or heating but to not my extent.
How is your coolant level?Quote:
Originally Posted by TT44NG
I would flush out the coolant and get some new coolant in there, also does your fan come on?
You might have a coolant leak somewhere, if coolant level is fine and your fan doesn't come on then I'd have the fanswitch replaced.
It could also be caused by a thermostat dying/being stuck closed so no coolant will flow through, in which cause you'd need to get the thermostat replaced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeang
ive refilled the water and its running fine now..fan works fine, gona do a service on it tomorrow, should be fine =]
thanks alot mang :thumbsup:
took the car to hannys today, they checkd and said it was the head gasket..
gona cost me 1k to repair.
du ma
Wot a bitch man, maybe shave some mm off the head while ur at it...Quote:
Originally Posted by TT44NG
swapping the head gasket would cost too much, hanny's wasnt specific, i took it few other palces they go 1k no way..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecivic78
so i took it to my dad's friends one, they're swapping a 2nd b18c in it as we speak, hope she comes home soon..=[
Have you got a cold air intake in it?
The problem that you have is your thermostat is stuck open....
What usually happens is the thermostat will stay shut until a pre determined temperature of around 93 degrees and then it will open allowing coolant to flow around the system.
when it is stuck open it flows from start up so the coolant takes longer to warm up...
Replace your thermostat and you should be fine....
I reckon this is a problem with newer engines
I got a 1990 model integra, the temp use to be middle all the time.. shoot up straight away.. even at 140k's in winter now.. it was still warm.. the engine.
I recently got a full ENGINE change to a 2001 model and now the temp stays at Cold sometimes when im punching it on the m4 it gauge just conks out, as if i just started the car on a cold morning.. then i slow down at a red light or something all u see..it goes back up to about 1/5 NEVER EVER reaches the middle, always less.. MAX i got it up to and that was on the spot reving, riding my clutch and burning shit.. lol was about.. 2/6
These engines are TOO cold myn is a GSi you guys are all running vtecs i reckon yours should be much warmer than myn.
oh and guys i removed my thermostat, my last one blew my headgasket lol
That is why you are getting an incorrect reading on your gauge, the thermostat offers restriction in the cooling system, which allows the coolant to soak up heat from your engine, when you remove the thermostat the coolant flows to fast and cant absorb the heat from the engine.....
You can cause alot of damage running your car like this because your gauge wont let you know when the system is to hot......
*slaps head* --- Remember, its fluid not static. As there is continuous flow in the cycle, it doesn't really matter the rate of flow past the engine into the radiator, water is always in contact with the block etc ..
I've heard a few people say this before -- I can't see any logical sense behind it. The main bad as many have stated is running the car at a temp it was not designed to be run at (i.e. due to the expansion / contraction of metals at certain heats and induced tolerances).
They sit low, hondas are good with there water temps.
if it is sitting very low then it could be numerous things such as;
thermostat.
oil to thick.
and too much coolant.
otherwise if its sitting at least the third of the way up then you should be happy. because the furthur you stay away from that 'H' the better
Good call. Preferably it should sit between 2/3 and slightly less than 1/2 way.Quote:
Originally Posted by trentd
Wow, i remember when this thread was in it's infancy. This thermo is a common problem for DC2 'tegs, so I'm not surprised its been active for so long.
Props to the DC integra! Its a cult classic!
Ahh man this was really helpful. I just bought my DC2 VTi-R and I was wondering why it took so ridiculously long to warm up on the move. Changed the thermostat and bada-bing! It works properly now! I'm really enjoying driving my first VTEC car! :D
Ok you all know that vtec only works when the engine is at normal op temp. Thermostat is most likly coz (it's probly jammed shut) or stuck half way lol
Hey guys, would you recommend i change mine? Mine sits to the left of Cold for about 20-30 minutes... then after driving for ages, it'll go about 1/4-1/3 (on a hot day). My family members are saying "yeah dw it's fine, just an old car"... but my fuel efficiency is eating dick and i think something is wrong.
I think you should. That's not normal. It should sit just to the left of half way. 2 things i can think of which are side effects of this are:Quote:
Originally Posted by charliebrown
1. certain things that require the engine to be at certain temperature will not work, eg VTEC
2. Engine components if not warmed to its optimal temperature may not expand as per normal which could increase wear and tear.
I have a GSi, so no VTEC. The main problem is just fuel economy... i'm not even getting 300km from a tank at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3vtir
you pretty much answered your own question.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliebrown
Lets put your situation into perspective.
You got 2 options.
1 - you leave it.....
You're forever thinking about why you've got a dick for fuel consumption, always a pin prick at the back of your mind digging away.
2 - you change it.......
you've gotten it off your chest and if it fixes your dick consumption problems. Excellent.
If it doesn't then it probably needed to be done anyway sooner or later. its done. move onto the next item in question. (if changing it didn't rectify the problem)
You make up your own mind.
Youve already laid it all out on the talbe.
now grow some balls and make a decision.
told mechanic about the temp gauge not going up and shit fuel economy. He said to do two more tanks and record the l/100kms. I got 11.5l/100km on the last tank. Is that shit for stock gsi? Current tanks almost empty and only done 250km
I had the same problem with my vti-r running always cool. I pulled out the thermostat only to discover that it was jammed open because the central guide pin was bent. Easy fix and cheap to do.. All should check this if yours always run cool! Ill try to get a pic of it up soon
Just refilled yesterday and got 12L/100km, my mechanic said anywhere between 12-14L/100km is acceptable for a car that old. And that replacing the thermostat carries other risks, often not worth it for a little bit better fuel economy.
Holy biiitch balls! Charliebrown just change the damn thing. Why is this even a question? Your engine is unable to get warm quick enough (and I bet once you start cruising your temp goes all the way back down) causing your engine to wear out faster than it normally should. It also costs barely anything. It's a bit fiddly to do but WHAT risks? If you do it yourself it'll be less than $50 (assuming you have to buy some el-cheapo tools considering you're so scared of doing anything) and you'll get your money back ASAP (at $1.30/L, you're paying around $4 more per 100km than everyone else).
Also, no offence to your mechanic, but you need a new one...
Not having a go at you (and I am trying to help you) but this is a no brainer. If you were in Sydney I'd change it for you myself. Good luck.................................
I think the engine is actually warming up, just the gauge thing is off. I started the engine and popped the hood, and feeling to see if engine was staying cold. After a few minutes, it was quite warm. (but im not sure how warm its actually supposed to be to compare)
Mechanic said he can do it all including parts for $30, but the last integra he changed a thermostat for because it had the same problem, ended up fcking up a while after. Cant recall exactly what he said, but it was something because of the old age of the car, the diameter of the hole where you change the thermo got smaller and so on i cant remember.
I will do the 2 full tanks like he said and record the L/100km, and will see what he says. He acknowledges that it's eating more fuel than it should, but reluctant to change it cos of past experiences with tegs fckin up after changing.
Ok, you can't just feel your rocker cover to tell that the engine is at optimal temperature. Of course it will be warm........................ Just not warm enough...Quote:
Originally Posted by charliebrown
Again, get a new mechanic.............. I can't believe he fked up a thermostat change...Quote:
Originally Posted by charliebrown
Another thing, while OEM Honda thermostats are more expensive, they stay open when they fail (while aftermarket ones stay closed, which will cause your car to overheat once they fail). Also, look at the age of your car - The OEM thermostat has just died, whereas an aftermarket one typically lasts 3-4 years.
If you're scared of your mechanic screwing it up, call around to different Hondas and ask for a quote to get it changed. I'm sure it will be less than $150-200 MAX and you have peace of mind... I know I would...
BTW, if your mechanic can BUY the thermostat and charge you only $30 INCLUDING parts and labour, what do you think the quality of the thermostat + labour will be????????? I hope he's just really nice....
not only that, but he is scared it'll **** up aftyer changing?
If he was competant, he would have no hesitation and could guarantee it won't **** up.
The thermo would be OEM Honda, mechanic's have discounts or some shit. He said might have to get a gasket, but that's only like $5. No charge for labour as he's close and been servicing my family's vehicles for decades. He's a straight forward guy, not after money and trustworthy. And not tryin to have a go at you guys, but he would have much more experience (being a RETIRED mechanic working for 30-40 years) than you, so i find it hard to just ignore what he says as tegs have rolled in at his door a million times and changing thermo has been an issue afterwards for many.
................................. Done trying to help you... You're an idiot......... Go... Continue running your car like shit...
Peace out! /
Charliebrown: 12L/100??! That's HORRIBLE! My VTi-R (1994, 150K) gets 10L/100km or better with quick driving and all suburban. If I do a long trip for half the tank I get about 7.7L/100km.
Also, why did you come in here asking for our help then tell us off when we give it? I'll second what others have said: Your mechanic is a nutcase - he should be quite alarmed that your car is running cold, especially if you ever drive it spiritedly. The fix should be easy, and what other problems could it possible cause? I like the attitude towards maintenance though "Oh my brake pads are worn out, but I'm not gonna fix it because I heard it can cause other problems". Do you REALLY think leaving the engine running cold would cause LESS problems than a fix?
P.S. Honda did mine five years and 70,000kms ago, and it's been absolutely fine ever since. Get it done - it's not expensive. And if it's your gauge, you should get that fixed too. You really wanna know when your car is overheating.
Just filled up again. Got 10.1L/100km granny driving in suburban. It's running slightly less 'cold', as in it's moving off to about 1/4 to 1/3 of the gauge after 10-15 minutes. Could it just be that the dealer didn't drive the car for a while or something, and that it needed to do a few runs before it ran properly again? And could you guys tell me if starting the engine to move the car in/out of the driveway uses a lot of petrol? My parents move my car like 10 times a day... not sure if that contributes to the poor economy.
You're an idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliebrown
You can't tell the exact temperature from reading the stock temperature guage.
It's very inaccurate and there as a guide only. 1/4 or 1/3 of the guage doesn't mean shit..
You can't tell if its running "slightly less cold" Stop secongd guessing.
Either go change the thermostat and come back with your results or just leave it and stop asking mundane repetitive questions & wasting our time.
Yes, repeated start stop when cold doesn't help fuel consumption.
You seem to complain alot about your car. Maybe try not driving for a while, start walking places. Perhaps getting some fresh air will help clear your head, and you'll use less fuel in your car.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliebrown
Oh, and go to a different mechanic.
Charlie brown harden the **** up! Change that Thermostat post-haste. Nothing will go wrong.
LMAO! i like that adviceQuote:
Originally Posted by Vvvtec
thermostat is easy as pie to change, and nothing bad can happen from changing it. plus it's not even that expensive, Tridon make aftermarket ones you can pick them up from supercheap. :)
Hey,
my b18 gsi has that same problem, even though i've filled it with coolant it still spends most its time on the cold side :S
change thermostat
def change thermostat, tridon part tt328-170, cost about $38 and made a noticable improvement to the way car drives. Only takes bout 30mins, easy job
Check this DIY. It's a pretty good DIY, but be sure to read wynode's comments also. Even a relatively mechanical noob can do it very easily.
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...thermostat+DIY
Charlie Brown, mrmvc and everyone else, do this asap as it's a cheap and easy job.