Does you euro have drift to one side tendency?

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Was your car lowered? If your car was stock, there is not much they can adjust in the rear in terms of alignment. So they were just trying to get you to come back more often.

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Yep, it's stock. And yes, they did mention that there's not a lot of adjustability, although the drive improved markedly - and my car stopped pulling - after the alignment (which was done 500km before I switched to 17s). They told me that the improvement was mainly to do with the adjustments they made at the rear.

But I also have no doubt that they were trying to ramp up business. I'll be keeping a close eye on my inside tyre wear and steering pull from now on, but I won't be getting an alignment done unless it's needed.

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Originally Posted by Tobster

First of all: understand that the car has pretty direct steering.
Most people complain about cars that have vague steering!
The Euro tramlines; some cars do, especially the more sporty ones.

I really think this "issue" isn't that much of an issue and has got blown completely out of proportion in this thread.

The first thing is to check your tyre pressures -- and LOWER them!

Increasing tyre pressures will increase tramlining. More pressure means harder tyre, means more likely to be thrown off line. Softer tyre pressures act like a cushion.

Perhaps start with the tyre pressures recommended in the manual -- there's a reason why manufacturers recommend tyre pressures -- because they've checked what works best for the car!

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How does tyre pressure have to do with my situation?

Happened from 5000klm's ....checked my tyre pressure before I took it too Honda, cause i thought it might be that. Tyre pressure was same as specs always have been.

If it was as simple as tyre pressure then why did honda dealership adjust my k-frame? Why not just say it was tyre pressure adjust them and goodbye.

And as far as tyres are concerned worst tram tracking I've ever experienced with the REO40's.

I have michelin pilot sport (preceda II) now and am experiencing "NIL" tram tracking. EXCELLENT TYRES. And tyre pressures are in spec

Also I must add that Yokahama's ADVAN, Dunlop sport 3000a are of equal standard, due to there asymetrical designs, which help with tramlining.

Here you see there is a trend forming...ASYMMETRICAL even bridgestone is following e.g

(TOP) michelin pilot sport (preceda II)
(BOTTOM) Yokahama ADVAN (sport V103).

Attachment 5374

Attachment 5375
(1) Continental conti sport contact 2
(2) Bridgestone REO50
(3) Dunlop 3000a sport

Found this also...

http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37060

Seems that we arn't the only ones....but drifting to the left, they do drive on the opposite side of the road aswell.

hmmmmmmmm.....sound familiar?????????

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Originally Posted by LXRY

How does tyre pressure have to do with my situation?

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All I was trying to suggest was that some cars will tramline regardless.

Different tyres will tramline more or less than others, yes.

What I was trying to suggest is that when a car experiences tramlining issues, the first thing you should do is check your tyre pressures: reducing tyre pressure will reduce tramlining. With some cars or people's preferences for feel, this is enough.

(Personally, I tend to run 34 front and 32 rear.)

Something that I did wonder about the other day: I remember reading in an early review of the car that the Australian model still gets mechanical power-steering assistance, whereas other models overseas apparently have electric power assistance. Mechanical assistance is still favoured by purists as providing better steering feel; electrical assistance tends to make things feel a bit more dead (e.g.: the M roadster has mechanical steering compared to the Z4's electric; many reviews tend to say that the S2000's electrically-assisted steering feels a bit dead). I wonder if our "purer" mechanical assistance provides a lot more feedback (for the style of car) than many drivers out there seem to prefer.

Yes I feel a steering pull through my stock car; I feel a brake bite more on one side; I feel a wheel grabbed by a pothole. I accept it as part of the nature of the car.

That doesn't mean to say that someone out there doesn't have a genuine manufacturing defect.

I just question whether some people seem to be mistaking what is the car's steering nature for something that they see as a defect. Hence: you take it to the Honda yard, they can't feel a problem -- because your car is no different to any other. The problem is that you don't like the nature of the car...

I would suggest that if you feel that you really have a problem with your steering, then meet up with somebody else on this forum and let them drive your car -- for an opinion from somebody who knows intimately what their car feels like.

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Originally Posted by Tobster

I would suggest that if you feel that you really have a problem with your steering, then meet up with somebody else on this forum and let them drive your car -- for an opinion from somebody who knows intimately what their car feels like.

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Good idea.Meet up with Aaron or some of the Melb.guys.:)

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Originally Posted by Tobster

All I was trying to suggest was that some cars will tramline regardless.

Different tyres will tramline more or less than others, yes.

What I was trying to suggest is that when a car experiences tramlining issues, the first thing you should do is check your tyre pressures: reducing tyre pressure will reduce tramlining. With some cars or people's preferences for feel, this is enough.

(Personally, I tend to run 34 front and 32 rear.)

Something that I did wonder about the other day: I remember reading in an early review of the car that the Australian model still gets mechanical power-steering assistance, whereas other models overseas apparently have electric power assistance. Mechanical assistance is still favoured by purists as providing better steering feel; electrical assistance tends to make things feel a bit more dead (e.g.: the M roadster has mechanical steering compared to the Z4's electric; many reviews tend to say that the S2000's electrically-assisted steering feels a bit dead). I wonder if our "purer" mechanical assistance provides a lot more feedback (for the style of car) than many drivers out there seem to prefer.

Yes I feel a steering pull through my stock car; I feel a brake bite more on one side; I feel a wheel grabbed by a pothole. I accept it as part of the nature of the car.

That doesn't mean to say that someone out there doesn't have a genuine manufacturing defect.

I just question whether some people seem to be mistaking what is the car's steering nature for something that they see as a defect. Hence: you take it to the Honda yard, they can't feel a problem -- because your car is no different to any other. The problem is that you don't like the nature of the car...

I would suggest that if you feel that you really have a problem with your steering, then meet up with somebody else on this forum and let them drive your car -- for an opinion from somebody who knows intimately what their car feels like.

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I have driven other euro's....my problem is something else. When I test drove my car it had no drift,no pull and no bias at all. If I had known that all Euros pull, drift after a while I would not have bought it.


I am taking my car back to the guy who lowered my car according to him my castor might have been affected when those fools at Honda adjusted my K-Frame to compensate for the drifting problem the REO40's caused...He will put my k-frame back the way it was (straight) as I have new tyres now.

He is still sure it was the RE40's that caused the problem in the first place, I'll just have to wait and see.

I have a 50 year old tractor at home and it drives straighter on the road than my car.

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Originally Posted by Tobster

Yes I feel a steering pull through my stock car; I feel a brake bite more on one side; I feel a wheel grabbed by a pothole. I accept it as part of the nature of the car.

That doesn't mean to say that someone out there doesn't have a genuine manufacturing defect.

I just question whether some people seem to be mistaking what is the car's steering nature for something that they see as a defect. Hence: you take it to the Honda yard, they can't feel a problem -- because your car is no different to any other. The problem is that you don't like the nature of the car...

I would suggest that if you feel that you really have a problem with your steering, then meet up with somebody else on this forum and let them drive your car -- for an opinion from somebody who knows intimately what their car feels like.

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I think you are misunderstanding his problem. The problem is when driving on a flat road, with no surface defects, and your hand lightly on the wheel, the car will drift to the right. It's as if the suspension of the car was "bent" to the right. You have to pull the steering wheel to the left to keep the car going straight. If you let the wheel go, the natural centering of the steering wheel will still end up with the car drifting to the right.

A car with proper alignment but the steering wheel offset so that it doesn't point straight when going straight will self-align to drive straight ahead (eventhough the wheel doesn't point straight).

I don't need to drive his car because I had the same problem before after lowering but with the rear camber and toe not within specs.

Hi guys this is my first post at this forum. I have a 07 Euro Lux Navi Man which has always drfited to the right. Done 5,000 km now and have had it back to honda several times. Only to be told there is no fault with my car. Service manager (Dave Potter Honda SA) told me Euros tend to drift a bit and it's the nature of the car. Something perhaps they should tell you before you buy! I must say tho, if you ignore said drifting its an awsome value for money example of motor enginnering. Just need to lower it now.

Several pages back i asked if anyone else had measured the wheelbase on left and right sides of their cars.(didnt get any answers on that) My vehicle is 10mm shorter on the right side than on the left side.Its never been pranged,nor even driven over a big pothole,came that way from factory.That effectivley means the car points right in the straight ahead position.
I've all but given up on this issue, and am waiting for my RE040's to wear out so i can try a set of symmetrical tyres.
I'm due for 20,000k service next week and i'm unsure if i want Honda to check and fiddle with the K frame and alignment.Jeez, i dont know if i even want them to balance and rotate my tyres, for fear of making the drift worse.

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Originally Posted by avid

Several pages back i asked if anyone else had measured the wheelbase on left and right sides of their cars.(didnt get any answers on that) My vehicle is 10mm shorter on the right side than on the left side.Its never been pranged,nor even driven over a big pothole,came that way from factory.That effectivley means the car points right in the straight ahead position.
I've all but given up on this issue, and am waiting for my RE040's to wear out so i can try a set of symmetrical tyres.
I'm due for 20,000k service next week and i'm unsure if i want Honda to check and fiddle with the K frame and alignment.Jeez, i dont know if i even want them to balance and rotate my tyres, for fear of making the drift worse.

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How do you measure the wheelbase on each side? Where is your middle point?

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Originally Posted by thezone

Hi guys this is my first post at this forum. I have a 07 Euro Lux Navi Man which has always drfited to the right. Done 5,000 km now and have had it back to honda several times. Only to be told there is no fault with my car. Service manager (Dave Potter Honda SA) told me Euros tend to drift a bit and it's the nature of the car. Something perhaps they should tell you before you buy! I must say tho, if you ignore said drifting its an awsome value for money example of motor enginnering. Just need to lower it now.

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It gets worse when you lower the Euro. Remember to get a rear camber and toe adjustment kit.

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Originally Posted by avid

Several pages back i asked if anyone else had measured the wheelbase on left and right sides of their cars.(didnt get any answers on that) My vehicle is 10mm shorter on the right side than on the left side.Its never been pranged,nor even driven over a big pothole,came that way from factory.That effectivley means the car points right in the straight ahead position.
I've all but given up on this issue, and am waiting for my RE040's to wear out so i can try a set of symmetrical tyres.
I'm due for 20,000k service next week and i'm unsure if i want Honda to check and fiddle with the K frame and alignment.Jeez, i dont know if i even want them to balance and rotate my tyres, for fear of making the drift worse.

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If you lower it you will have no hope of Honda fixing the issue....happened to me, good excuse for them to void warranty. HA was quick to point out that warranty void wit my case.

This thread is still going!

I occasionally experience the right pull but my car has been tramlining less since fitting Dunlop SportMaxx tyres. It's probably because they are new. I have gone against earlier posted advice and I have increased the tyre pressures to 46psi front and 34psi rear. Apart from the slightly "jigglier" ride (and great turn-in), it has reduced tramlining even more; probably because it has made the tyre cross section rounder. I don't think it will increase centre of tyre wear because tyres on the Euro wear the shoulders first anyway.

The maximum air pressure for the reinforced version of the 225/45R17 SportMaxx's on my car is 50psi. It seems that any rim bigger than 16 inch doesn't work well on the Euro. My original 16 inch tyres (205/55R16 Dunlop 2050M) did not have any problems in this regard. But then again, the Acura TSX has 17 inch rims but with taller (larger diameter and profile) 215/50R17 tyres (sorry, tires in USA speak). Maybe Acura recognised that larger width tires (sic) as huge, ultrawide, gi-normous as 225's cause tramlining problems and went for a taller and "rounder" cross section tire (sic).

I believe that the Type R in Europe has 215/45R17 tyres. Has anyone used this smaller and speedometer flattering tyre size on the Aussie Euro?

Our complaint in this thread is not tramlining though. :)

btw, 46psi is too high. When you drive, the tyres heat up and it can go above 50psi.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

How do you measure the wheelbase on each side? Where is your middle point?

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Aaron,I measured from the centre of each wheel cap, front to back.Even though its not accurate to the mm,in my cars case its easy enough to see the 10mm difference.I also measured the height of the car on each side,unlike some other peoples findings,i found very little difference in ride height,few mm at most.I've also experimented with all sorts of tyre pressures even to the point of making one side or the other pressure higher in an attempt to "offset" the drifting effect.Very little difference,if any, in my case.

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Originally Posted by avid

Aaron,I measured from the centre of each wheel cap, front to back.Even though its not accurate to the mm,in my cars case its easy enough to see the 10mm difference.I also measured the height of the car on each side,unlike some other peoples findings,i found very little difference in ride height,few mm at most.I've also experimented with all sorts of tyre pressures even to the point of making one side or the other pressure higher in an attempt to "offset" the drifting effect.Very little difference,if any, in my case.

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I just went out and measured mine, 268cm on each side. (oh, and my driver's side front corner is lower by 1cm compared to the passenger's side).

Did you get your subframe adjusted by the dealer?

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Originally Posted by aaronng

I just went out and measured mine, 268cm on each side. (oh, and my driver's side front corner is lower by 1cm compared to the passenger's side).

Did you get your subframe adjusted by the dealer?

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No,i havnt had the Dealer touch it.My left wheel base is 267cm and right is 266cm, give or take a mm or two,BTW.My car is stock height,not lowered.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Our complaint in this thread is not tramlining though. :)

btw, 46psi is too high. When you drive, the tyres heat up and it can go above 50psi.

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Actually, LXRY and Tobster were talking about Tramlining and/or Tramtracking on the previous page and there are numerous other references in this thread to Tramlining. Tobster had even contended that lowering tyre pressures helps with Tramlining.

I was reporting on my experience with increasing tyre pressures as opposed to reducing them. It is better to run higher pressures for high speed.

I am aware of the increase in pressure when the tyres heat-up. The rule of thumb is a 4 psi increase. That's why I inflated my car's tyres to 46 psi (max is 50 psi with the reinforced SportMaxx 225/45R17).

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Originally Posted by SPQR

Actually, LXRY and Tobster were talking about Tramlining and/or Tramtracking on the previous page and there are numerous other references in this thread to Tramlining. Tobster had even contended that lowering tyre pressures helps with Tramlining.

I was reporting on my experience with increasing tyre pressures as opposed to reducing them. It is better to run higher pressures for high speed.

I am aware of the increase in pressure when the tyres heat-up. The rule of thumb is a 4 psi increase. That's why I inflated my car's tyres to 46 psi (max is 50 psi with the reinforced SportMaxx 225/45R17).

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Sorry but this thread has nothing to do with tramlining.

Aaronng is right :thumbsup:

It has to do with a problem with drifting to one side flat road or cambered road excessively than normal.

Tobster mentioned tramlining previous page not me, I stated that I have no problems with tramlining anymore, and yes we all know that bridgestone's
REO40's are a bad tyre for tramlining....

I no longer have this problem with tramlining with my new Michelin's, and I have still have a problem with my car pulling excessively to the right side

Your contribution or help is appreciated regarding tramlining and tyre pressure's ;)

I believe that a lot of the veering described by people in this thread could be due to tramlining.

I had a little play while driving home last night. My steering is happy to veer to the left, the right or to stay straight ahead -- all within a tiny fraction of a steering-wheel turn.

Since the car tramlines so readily, it really doesn't take much to get it to veer...

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Originally Posted by Tobster

I believe that a lot of the veering described by people in this thread could be due to tramlining.

I had a little play while driving home last night. My steering is happy to veer to the left, the right or to stay straight ahead -- all within a tiny fraction of a steering-wheel turn.

Since the car tramlines so readily, it really doesn't take much to get it to veer...

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What you are describing is not tramlining. That is sharp steering response. That is different to tramlining and to drifting. Tramlining is when you go over a surface defect on the road and the interaction of the tyre with that groove/hole/line travels back up the steering rack and turns the wheel against your command. So if you were holding the steering wheel loosely, it would turn on its own. In drifting, the steering wheel self-centering point is not straight. So once self-centered, the car will veer off to the right (or left), but not as quick as tramlining and certainly doesn't pull the steering wheel from your hands.

I just tried the same thing this morning tobster and i think i agree with you. Although there is a slight tendancy to veer right rather than left.

I'm aware of what tramlining is. What I'm trying to suggest (obviously unsuccessfully) is that it goes something like:

Wheel tramlines -- hence steering wheel moves.

But the steering moves only a tiny bit -- barely perceptible to the driver (if at all).

Therefore the car seems to drift...

The Euro tramlines easily, so if it only tramlines a minute amount due to road irregularities it's going to feel like the car is drifting around the place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SPQR

This thread is still going!

I occasionally experience the right pull but my car has been tramlining less since fitting Dunlop SportMaxx tyres. It's probably because they are new. I have gone against earlier posted advice and I have increased the tyre pressures to 46psi front and 34psi rear. Apart from the slightly "jigglier" ride (and great turn-in), it has reduced tramlining even more; probably because it has made the tyre cross section rounder. I don't think it will increase centre of tyre wear because tyres on the Euro wear the shoulders first anyway.

The maximum air pressure for the reinforced version of the 225/45R17 SportMaxx's on my car is 50psi. It seems that any rim bigger than 16 inch doesn't work well on the Euro. My original 16 inch tyres (205/55R16 Dunlop 2050M) did not have any problems in this regard. But then again, the Acura TSX has 17 inch rims but with taller (larger diameter and profile) 215/50R17 tyres (sorry, tires in USA speak). Maybe Acura recognised that larger width tires (sic) as huge, ultrawide, gi-normous as 225's cause tramlining problems and went for a taller and "rounder" cross section tire (sic).

I believe that the Type R in Europe has 215/45R17 tyres. Has anyone used this smaller and speedometer flattering tyre size on the Aussie Euro?

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Thought that the 46 PSI was a typo but apparently not ! Over inflating by that much

a) is dangerous as when driving the pressure will increase by 4 PSI or more (especially if doing highway speeds) thus exceeding that maximum figure of the tyre i.e. it may blow or pop off the rim
b) will result on very poor wear / life

That said there are lots of discussions here, Accurazine (www.acurazine.com) about tyre pressure and a lot of people running 4-6 PSI over the Honda (Acura) recommended pressures and getting better fuel economy plus handing with excellent wear. You can find similar comments elsewhere easily enough for many tyres & vehicles.

I run mine 4 PSI higher (36 front, 34 rear) so I agree a little higher is OK and have noticed the improvements with only a little "sitffer" ride but 14 PSI over is IMHO crazy.

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Originally Posted by Tobster

I'm aware of what tramlining is. What I'm trying to suggest (obviously unsuccessfully) is that it goes something like:

Wheel tramlines -- hence steering wheel moves.

But the steering moves only a tiny bit -- barely perceptible to the driver (if at all).

Therefore the car seems to drift...

The Euro tramlines easily, so if it only tramlines a minute amount due to road irregularities it's going to feel like the car is drifting around the place.

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When I had the problem, the car never veered left unless I was braking on a patch of road with uneven grip on the left and right tyres (road scored to re-tar on one side). Also, on a road which curved left and cambered to left very strongly, the car still veered right. :)

Drove home from work tonight and car definitely veers to the right quite badly. I think this is a known fault and that Honda may be treading carefully in case of a big backlash. When I brought up the issue they replied "We have checked all specs and there is technically no fault with your car". They suggested that if I'm still not happy they would invite the principal or director from Honda Aust. over to the yard to personally test drive the car. I think i might just take them up on that.

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Originally Posted by thezone

Drove home from work tonight and car definitely veers to the right quite badly. I think this is a known fault and that Honda may be treading carefully in case of a big backlash. When I brought up the issue they replied "We have checked all specs and there is technically no fault with your car". They suggested that if I'm still not happy they would invite the principal or director from Honda Aust. over to the yard to personally test drive the car. I think i might just take them up on that.

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Take them up on their offer and make sure you take them on a stretch of road where you car veers to the right quite bad.Good luck!!!

Hi tony,

Do you have a bigger picture of your car that I can use as incentive to get bilstein/eibach setup? Your avatar is too small. I was quoted $1600 plus fitting today. So I just need a little visual incentive. Also, before i go changing suspension set up i should probably sort out veering problem otherwise I'm sure Honda wont touch it.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by thezone

Hi tony,

Do you have a bigger picture of your car that I can use as incentive to get bilstein/eibach setup? Your avatar is too small. I was quoted $1600 plus fitting today. So I just need a little visual incentive. Also, before i go changing suspension set up i should probably sort out veering problem otherwise I'm sure Honda wont touch it.

Cheers

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Yeah,i'll send you one.BTW if you get rid of those crap OEM tyres(RE040s)you'll reduce the veering markedly.$1600+fitting sounds like a good price.You WILL need a rear camber kit though.Get an Ingallls or ask your installer about the Eibach one.PS.You'll LOVE the setup when you get it done.:thumbsup:

Hi tony, dont know if your getting my messages or not re email can you let me know? cheers.

I had my 20,000k service done on Friday and got the tyres rotated.
My 10 yr old son pestered me to take him to the Auto Saloon show at the Gold Coast,so off we went on Saturday down the very nice flat Pacific hwy to the GC, and WTF,no noticeable drift to the right.
Why when i had rotated them at 10,000ks did it still drift, but not now???
Anyway, met a helpful Management guy at the Bridgestone display who very kindly offered to switch around my tyres on the rims for free in an effort to see if that would solve the drift problem i had been having, and at that point i wasnt sure if the drift had gone 100% or not.But it wasnt there on the return trip to Brisbane either,so i dont think i will be taking up his offer.Interestingly he hadnt heard of the problem with the RE040's,but seemed genuinely interested in helping me fix it.
BTW,the show was a bit disappointing.Not many Hondas and not one Euro.I was also on the lookout for a display stand selling some serious rims , nothing but bling anywhere to be seen.
What a wasted opportunity for those places that sell tuner parts and decent rims.
I know i'm getting old,but i really am unimpressed with the trend for "modified car" to mean how big and loud a stereo system they can cram in their vehicles.Personally i would rather see the money spent on adding custom made carbon fibre and alloy suspension components or polishing everything in sight(and out of sight).A lot of the cars didnt even have lightweight/racing rims.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thezone

Drove home from work tonight and car definitely veers to the right quite badly. I think this is a known fault and that Honda may be treading carefully in case of a big backlash. When I brought up the issue they replied "We have checked all specs and there is technically no fault with your car". They suggested that if I'm still not happy they would invite the principal or director from Honda Aust. over to the yard to personally test drive the car. I think i might just take them up on that.

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Don't let them fool you they know of the issue...when they send someone there (to your dealer) he or she will be there before you, to discuss what they will say, collaboration. Everyone's stories have to be the same. They will LIE to you, DENY it till they are blue in the face, then offer you tyres lol.

Give em hell trust me. Ask for a third party opinion....and you choose the third party.

I feel for you as you will get the run around.

OK. Strangeness.

Ive had my euro 2 years. No drifting . All perfect.

Got the 30 000km service done a few weeks ago. Rotated the tyres.

Now it drifts to the right WTF!

hmm

got an 06 luxury and no problems.

Well my stock 05 17 inch rims Euro Accord finally decided the stock tyres were enough after around 30000kms so I just changed them to brand new tyres on all 4 corners.

Before, my car had a very slight tendency to drift to the right, but not too noticeable.

After putting on some Hankook V8 RS2 (I think they're called) and with laser wheel alignment done so that it is suppose to track straight, the car is pulling very hard to the left.

I've yet to go fix this but it goes on to show that even with another tyre you get drifting tendencies one way or another. This has never happened with previous cars I've had.

2ndly I think it proves that its not only the original Bridgestone 040s which have this problem. There must be something wrong with the Euro's design. Especially with the amount of bump steer that I get over any pot holes or bumps, which is rather dangerous.

Now its going to be a hassle to fix this issue I would imagine... oh well, when I get more time.

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Originally Posted by Omotesando

Well my stock 05 17 inch rims Euro Accord finally decided the stock tyres were enough after around 30000kms so I just changed them to brand new tyres on all 4 corners.

Before, my car had a very slight tendency to drift to the right, but not too noticeable.

After putting on some Hankook V8 RS2 (I think they're called) and with laser wheel alignment done so that it is suppose to track straight, the car is pulling very hard to the left.

I've yet to go fix this but it goes on to show that even with another tyre you get drifting tendencies one way or another. This has never happened with previous cars I've had.

2ndly I think it proves that its not only the original Bridgestone 040s which have this problem. There must be something wrong with the Euro's design. Especially with the amount of bump steer that I get over any pot holes or bumps, which is rather dangerous.

Now its going to be a hassle to fix this issue I would imagine... oh well, when I get more time.

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You did an alignment, so the suspension geometry is probably changed. What alignment settings did the tyre shop set for your suspension?

After so many months and so many complaints fom Euro owners with the same problem, doesn't anyone think this car genuinely has a defective steering problem? I have NEVER owned a car that could not be straightended out with a simple wheel alignment! I have had all the HA "tricks" done since I bought it a year ago and it still is a pain in the arse to steer. Chasing it all over the road and as twitchy as a cat on a hot roof. Hit the slightest bump and its all over the place and it likes to go all over the lane dependant on the way the road is worn, and it loves to track right still..... What a drama in such a nice vehicle.

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Originally Posted by Woogler

After so many months and so many complaints fom Euro owners with the same problem, doesn't anyone think this car genuinely has a defective steering problem? I have NEVER owned a car that could not be straightended out with a simple wheel alignment! I have had all the HA "tricks" done since I bought it a year ago and it still is a pain in the arse to steer. Chasing it all over the road and as twitchy as a cat on a hot roof. Hit the slightest bump and its all over the place and it likes to go all over the lane dependant on the way the road is worn, and it loves to track right still..... What a drama in such a nice vehicle.

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The problem was caused by the RE040 tyres. But after you all got your subframe adjusted, that caused uneven castor that would work with the RE040 at stock height but would be even worse when you lower your car or use different tyres. The best would have been to live with the pulling and then change to a different brand of tyres. If you had your subframe adjusted, you should change it back to stock. Also, if you don't like twitchy steering, ask for 1mm total toe in on your front wheels.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woogler

After so many months and so many complaints fom Euro owners with the same problem, doesn't anyone think this car genuinely has a defective steering problem? I have NEVER owned a car that could not be straightended out with a simple wheel alignment! I have had all the HA "tricks" done since I bought it a year ago and it still is a pain in the arse to steer. Chasing it all over the road and as twitchy as a cat on a hot roof. Hit the slightest bump and its all over the place and it likes to go all over the lane dependant on the way the road is worn, and it loves to track right still..... What a drama in such a nice vehicle.

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Have you changed from the REO40's?


Yep your REO40's causing this problem you are talking about "twitchy as a cat"...lol



I changed tyres not long ago, REO40's causing alot of tramlining and twitching as you would call it, lol. No tramlining or sudden changes to the steering anymore since I got new tyres, I had to pay for these my self of course.

I wouldn't allow them to stuff around with my sub-frame. Only changed tyres and a thousand wheel alignments. But the way it drags itself to the right on right cambered sloped roads...ridiculously compared to left cambered..it has a problem.. a real problem.. the car is just not even in the front end. And so many others have the same problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woogler

I wouldn't allow them to stuff around with my sub-frame. Only changed tyres and a thousand wheel alignments. But the way it drags itself to the right on right cambered sloped roads...ridiculously compared to left cambered..it has a problem.. a real problem.. the car is just not even in the front end. And so many others have the same problem.

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So you are not running on REO40's?

You are experiencing the same problems as me. There is a problem, and they arn't telling.

Just take my advice and fill in safety report anyway, consumer affairs. Don't lose any more hair over it, irritating I know, but they will give in under pressure.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...75#post1125475

No I have had the alleged "faulty" REO40s swapped for new ones. It allowed the vehicl to track straighter but it has issues still on cambered roads. Haven't bought different brands yet. Car has only done 11k kms.

I am completing the form you posted a link to now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woogler

No I have had the alleged "faulty" REO40s swapped for new ones. It allowed the vehicl to track straighter but it has issues still on cambered roads. Haven't bought different brands yet. Car has only done 11k kms.

I am completing the form you posted a link to now.

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My car was pulling right, before they adjusted sub frame, now pulling under camber only, not a straight road as before.

Sounds like they adjusted your sub frame too, trust me they would of that's there solution you see, these guys here in Aust. are the stooges and they sit when told trust me on this.

What ever it is one of us they can bullshit too but when your talking numbers

WE WIN.

Well I have the report for the wheel alignment - pre and after.

From the aligntment specs (which I wont retype here as its too cold to go outside to fetch it), it should be tracking straight on.

Now it is pulling to the left.

I think the RE040s tramline worst, that one I could make an association with.

However, other problems such as bump steer and not tracking straight or being really darty AREN'T exclusively restricted to RE040s.

Tramlining doesnt cause problems nor will cause any accidents.

Car not tracking straight or swerving all over the place whenever the camber is uneven or there are pot holes will and I still dont understand how people can blame this on the RE040s fully. The only problem with the RE040 that I had was tramlining but that was only a small part of the whole problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woogler

No I have had the alleged "faulty" REO40s swapped for new ones. It allowed the vehicl to track straighter but it has issues still on cambered roads. Haven't bought different brands yet. Car has only done 11k kms.

I am completing the form you posted a link to now.

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No, ALL RE040's have the problem. Because even the RE040s used on the USDM IS250s have the same problem! The only way to overcome this is to change to a different brand of tyre.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omotesando

Well I have the report for the wheel alignment - pre and after.

From the aligntment specs (which I wont retype here as its too cold to go outside to fetch it), it should be tracking straight on.

Now it is pulling to the left.

I think the RE040s tramline worst, that one I could make an association with.

However, other problems such as bump steer and not tracking straight or being really darty AREN'T exclusively restricted to RE040s.

Tramlining doesnt cause problems nor will cause any accidents.

Car not tracking straight or swerving all over the place whenever the camber is uneven or there are pot holes will and I still dont understand how people can blame this on the RE040s fully. The only problem with the RE040 that I had was tramlining but that was only a small part of the whole problem.

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I have had my sub frame adjusted when I had REO40's, pulling only under camber now, excessively after adjustment.

Now I have new tyres same thing !! NO DIFFERENCE

Going to get my sub frame straightened only then will this rule out REO40's

Does that make sense?

Not trying to knock REO40's, not saying they good either just process of elimination, has to be proven beyond doubt.

Found this article this morning; I thouught it might be relevant to some people's problems...

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_108643/article.html

Prior to some suspension mods at 15,000km, my Euro never drifted to the right or left. The mods I did were to replace the rear sway bar with a stiffer bar and replace all dampers with Konis. No alteration of ride height; that's just being an idiot asking for problems on a car without adjustable camber.

Then after these mods, I had a wheel alignment done and then the car could not stay in the lane for any more than 3 seconds. I spat the dummy and got another wheel alignment done elsewhere. Hey presto! The car now tracks wonderfully and will stay in the lane for a good 5 or 6 seconds. 18,000km on the clock now.

The good wheel alignment I had done was -
Front Toe 0mm Left and Right
Rear Toe Left: 2mm In, Right: 2mm In.

Note that the camber is not adjustable. Interesting though that my front camber is roughly 0 degrees but the Left Rear is -2 degrees while the Right Rear is -1 degrees. I suppose this helps with the camber of our roads? Not sure.

Hope that helps but I suspect that most people having problems here just need a decent wheel alignment. If you've driven a long distance tolerating a strong pull to the right, then I would replace all 4 tyres, and then get a decent wheel alignment done. Don't bother waiting for Honda to fix this for you, either do it yourself or put up with it.

Note that I am still using the original RE040s and have never had the subframe adjusted.

I've been doing some more experimenting. Most of the time the Euro tracks well but sometimes it does pull to the right, taking 3 seconds to hit the whiteline. It does this despite the road looking flat but it seems that on all but the flattest of roads, then yes there is tendnancy to drift right slightly. Personally I don't think my car suffers badly from this at all.

One other thing, according to the service manual, the rear camber should be -1deg +/- 30 minutes, meaning that the left rear has half a degree more camber than it should. I'll try to reduce this using the play in the damper top hat bolts when I get the tyres changed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aeuro

I've been doing some more experimenting. Most of the time the Euro tracks well but sometimes it does pull to the right, taking 3 seconds to hit the whiteline. It does this despite the road looking flat but it seems that on all but the flattest of roads, then yes there is tendnancy to drift right slightly. Personally I don't think my car suffers badly from this at all.

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That amount of pulling is very minimal. You know you have a problem if your car changes lane completely within 2-3 seconds at 110km/h. LOL. That was what I had when my left camber was -2.7 and the right was -3.2

So its camber or toe that cause the pulling?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Suntzu

So its camber or toe that cause the pulling?

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My front toe was good. If it was toe that caused the pulling, it would have been the rear toe (mine was still in spec though).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Suntzu

So its camber or toe that cause the pulling?

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I thought it's toe.

Had a guy from Fair Trading NSW call me today as the result of my online complaint. He suggested it was torque steer. I quickly shut that concept down. He is now looking further into the complaint.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woogler

Had a guy from Fair Trading NSW call me today as the result of my online complaint. He suggested it was torque steer. I quickly shut that concept down. He is now looking further into the complaint.

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He suggested it was torque steer.That's a good one.:thumbdwn:

Torque steer at crusing speed? Tell him his dreaming!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by V205

Torque steer at crusing speed? Tell him his dreaming!

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Better yet is to tell him that it happens when you are not touching the accelerator. :)

Dead right guys. And aaronng, that is exactly what he was told. That is why he is now looking into it further. And when I mentioned this forum, with 39 pages of posts from Euro owners with the same problem, he started to take me seriously....

For the record, mine happened after lowering, but I fixed it by getting a rear camber kit, and aligning to the perfect specs at a good tyre plce.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

For the record, mine happened after lowering, but I fixed it by getting a rear camber kit, and aligning to the perfect specs at a good tyre plce.

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Yeah im getting mine done tommorow. My tein ss and RSB is here but not the Ingalls camber kit. Im not sure if i should get the alignment done until next week when the camber kit is in. Not sure if a later camber adjustment will effect the toe settings on the rear later.

Im getting the zero front toe and 2mm toe in at the rear as per most recommedations here.

cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Suntzu

Yeah im getting mine done tommorow. My tein ss and RSB is here but not the Ingalls camber kit. Im not sure if i should get the alignment done until next week when the camber kit is in. Not sure if a later camber adjustment will effect the toe settings on the rear later.

Im getting the zero front toe and 2mm toe in at the rear as per most recommedations here.

cheers

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Remember to get a before and after alignment printout.

I dont' know what is camber but what i can see from my car is the outer edge of rear tyres, probably 1.5 inch from outside never touch the ground. So the rear tyres is always like / \ instead of ||

I park on concrete floor so it gives very strong contrast of dust and no dust on the surface of the tyres.

I do realize is a bit excessive than the S15 park next to me in the garage but it could be the euro setting?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by petsfact

I dont' know what is camber but what i can see from my car is the outer edge of rear tyres, probably 1.5 inch from outside never touch the ground. So the rear tyres is always like / \ instead of ||

I park on concrete floor so it gives very strong contrast of dust and no dust on the surface of the tyres.

I do realize is a bit excessive than the S15 park next to me in the garage but it could be the euro setting?

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When lowered, the rear camber goes out of spec by quite a lot. I had about 3 degrees of negative camber on the rear. When is your rear camber kit arriving?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

When lowered, the rear camber goes out of spec by quite a lot. I had about 3 degrees of negative camber on the rear. When is your rear camber kit arriving?

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do i need those? i thought i can just run a few kerb not curb and push it back.......somehow... :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by petsfact

do i need those? i thought i can just run a few curb and push it back.......somehow... :p

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Why run the kerb? Might as well take them off and replace them with shorter twigs.

You need them if you are having pulling to the side or uneven tyre wear on the rear.

DFT guy is coming to my dealer on Thu and wants to see the service records for the fault. And I will be taking him for a drive to demonstrate the fault.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woogler

DFT guy is coming to my dealer on Thu and wants to see the service records for the fault. And I will be taking him for a drive to demonstrate the fault.

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Happy for you woogler and wish you all the luck in the world with this one.......you can give them my details aswell as I have the same problem.

That means I will be getting a phone call too....time to get us some answers ;)

email :- shensta@hotmail.com

mobile phone no :- I will pm it too you ;)

I'm sure you'll keep us posted :thumbsup:

Just a quick note on my personal experience with this issue:

My Euro also had a drift to the right, I had my car looked at twice by my local Honda Dealership. The first visit they realigned the wheels, that didn't fix it. The second they replaced the wheels and realigned (the wheels were worn unevenly over time, adding to the issue). The mechanic told me they could not completely remove the drift, but it was greatly suppressed.

These days a small drift is still there, but its not a great concern. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rhettzor

Just a quick note on my personal experience with this issue:

My Euro also had a drift to the right, I had my car looked at twice by my local Honda Dealership. The first visit they realigned the wheels, that didn't fix it. The second they replaced the wheels and realigned (the wheels were worn unevenly over time, adding to the issue). The mechanic told me they could not completely remove the drift, but it was greatly suppressed.

These days a small drift is still there, but its not a great concern. :)

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Suppression...great word to use, because that's all they doing :thumbdwn:

Great to hear you are satisfied with the suppression of the problem....how many klm's had you done when it first started how many klm's have you done now?

Did they say what caused it in the first place?

Thanks for the input much appreciated :thumbsup:

I first noticed the drift around the 5k mark. From there it gradually became worse. One arvo i even worked out the LEFT TURN to RIGHT TURN ratio of my drive to work, etc... just to make sure i wasn't unevenly wearing the tyers (how crazy right? hehe!). Then i realised it doesn't matter, cause if i take the same trip home it works out even...

Anywho, I had a mate drive my car to get his opinion (and to make sure i wasn't going mad). At my 10k service (which was about 5 weeks later) i had honda check it out. As i previously mentioned, they realigned the wheels, told me it happens sometimes to new cars, and i just need to wear it in. The drift was somewhat suppressed, but it didn't last long. I took the car back at @14k, they realigned and replace the wheels, noting that the wheels had unevenly worn, and were counteracting the initial realignment.

Since then its been much better, the drift is still there in a very slight form (as with most cars), but its not causing me any grief. If it gets worse again, i'll be sure to get honda to check it out. Right now I'm @58k.

Had DFT check mine out today. Noted there was drift and camber sensitivity but after testing another Euro off the dealers floor for comparison, commented that mine was minimal and quite good compared to the brand new one! Anyway, DFT guy advised my dealer to do an alignment and try and adjust the castor or camber (apparently this can be done minimally), but NOT make it worse. So on Tuesday it goes in again. More to follow.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woogler

Had DFT check mine out today. Noted there was drift and camber sensitivity but after testing another Euro off the dealers floor for comparison, commented that mine was minimal and quite good compared to the brand new one! Anyway, DFT guy advised my dealer to do an alignment and try and adjust the castor or camber (apparently this can be done minimally), but NOT make it worse. So on Tuesday it goes in again. More to follow.....

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Ive got a funny feeling there is no more adjustment left on the sub frame, like mine....some euros must be worse than others...hey woogler can you ask honda to explain what happened in the first place....for them to adjust the sub frame.....it would be great to find out what actually happened, get ready for some crap....ask for a copy of the service bulletin aswell, might as well :thumbsup:

If they are adjusting the rear subframe, that means they are just trying to alter the rear camber and toe. Get a camber kit and that will do the same without messing with the subframe.

Yep. Mine was drifting till I dropped it on the Tein SS and got a GOOD alignment done as specified by me with 0 front toe and 2 mm rear toe. All good now. Better than good really. Tracks like a champion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

If they are adjusting the rear subframe, that means they are just trying to alter the rear camber and toe. Get a camber kit and that will do the same without messing with the subframe.

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I doubt it would be the rear sub frame....every adjustment done has been the front sub frame.....

just something to consider.....

After lowering my car (no difference what so ever).

My car started pulling right "excessively than normal, under right camber" after they adjusted front sub frame.....still the same after lowering.

Tyres starting to wear on front already, the rear look as if I just put them on.

Don't think woogler lowered...don't quote me on that too late at night cbf to check lol ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LXRY

I doubt it would be the rear sub frame....every adjustment done has been the front sub frame.....

just something to consider.....

After lowering my car (no difference what so ever).

My car started pulling right "excessively than normal, under right camber" after they adjusted front sub frame.....still the same after lowering.

Tyres starting to wear on front already, the rear look as if I just put them on.

Don't think woogler lowered...don't quote me on that too late at night cbf to check lol ;)

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When you adjust the subframe, you cannot adjust toe and camber individually. If you get toe back to spec, the camber goes out of spec. That's why when I drove your car, it felt very fidgety and undecided on which way it wanted to pull.

Your car is lower than mine, and since your subframe was adjusted, your pulling was not as bad as mine. Even so, on my car it pulled only to the right. With yours, it feels unstable and wants to go in every direction (but slightly). So I think your alignment settings on your rear suspension is just a compromise. Have you managed to source a camber kit yet?

Your new front tyres wearing so quickly could mean that your front toe is out of spec. Why did they adjust your front subframe too? There is no need for that since you are able to adjust toe at the front.

Just spoke with svc mgr. He was intending to screw with the sub frame. Not allowing that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woogler

Just spoke with svc mgr. He was intending to screw with the sub frame. Not allowing that.

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If you are planning to keep your car long term, pay the $250-300 for a rear camber kit. It's great if someone kerbs your rims and you need to get the alignment adjusted again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Suntzu

Yep. Mine was drifting till I dropped it on the Tein SS and got a GOOD alignment done as specified by me with 0 front toe and 2 mm rear toe. All good now. Better than good really. Tracks like a champion.

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This probably explains why i've never had these issues.At less than 1k i changed to Bilsteins, Eibachs, rear camber kit and then good 4 wheel alignment.Now 21k later no problems.:thumbsup:

Rear camber kit sounds like a better idea. Mine is starting to drift right pretty bad and I'm using a lot of strength just to keep the car straight.

Will bring is back to the dealer to see if he can do anything about it first.