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Wanting to purchase some shocks for my ek1.
Can get a set of 4 new skunk2 shocks for $400.00.
Any known problems with skunk2 shocks etc?
And what springs should i look at getting to go with them, i want body role minimised massivly, i currently have 15's.
Skunk2 shocks have been known to leak and not have very good life, particularly when the ride height is significantly lowered.
There are many factors to consider when buying suspension to help you decide which setup best suits your needs and budget.
Main Considerations When Buying Suspension:
- Costs
- Ride Height Adjustability
- Damper Adjustability
- Spring Rate
- Ride Comfort, Handling or "Best Balance"?
If you are not going to track your car and don't have any real interest in racing, then a spring shock combo will more than suffice. Depending on your ride comfort and handling demands is where you meet the two to find a set-up that is best suited to your needs.
Firstly;
Progressive Springs: Spring Rate ("Stiffness") increase as compression increases in order to give a "better" balance between handling and comfort.
Linear Springs: Spring Rate is "linear" and does not change regardless of preload. Good for steering response and sharp cornering.
Ride Height
Be careful when choosing springs as the springs will be the main determinant of ride height, you also have to consider that some shocks come with lower spring perches than OEM thus even if you install the shocks with STOCK springs the ride height will be changed.
Spring Rate
Depending how stiff you like your car and your comfort/handling needs will determine the spring rate...unfortunately if you are one to choose comfort over performance...then spring rates don't differ too much and aren't very customizable when it comes to Progressive Springs. Progressive springs will also increase the life of your dampers.
Brand/Recommendations
When it comes to suspension it is important to ensure it is high quality. As the last thing you want is to rebuild them down the track or have to purchase replacements due to premature wear or faulty workmanship. I would recommend buying Japanese/European usually you couldn’t go wrong. (Koni, KYB, Bilstein, Eibach).
I personally have Spoon Springs / KYB AGX Shock combo...Brand new from a local dealer you will pay around $1200 for both...which is expensive for a spring shock combo...but I chose the set for the adjustability of the KYB Shocks and the Spoon Springs currently (according to my research and others) have the highest spring rates of the progressive springs available today. My ride does get bumpy when the dampers are brought up to 3-4 but for comfort when on 1 all round the comfort is stiffer than OEM but still has an OEM Feel
Also if your looking to reduce body roll a Whiteline or similar rear sway bar and reinforcement kit would dramatically reduce body roll and ensure that your ride comfort is kept at an acceptable level for the street. Easily the best value for money suspension modifications for Honda's and other vehicles alike.
Then there is the option of Adjustable Spring Perch coilovers...remember MOST suspension setup's on HONDA's are COILOVERS. Easy way to tell is if the spring and damper combo can be removed as one. The slang term often used on forums "coilovers" refers to a specifically engineered spring/shock combo that has an adjustable spring perch. (For ride height/preload adjustability).
If you have the money and want the greatest handling benefits these are the way to go however they will cost much more than a good set of springs/dampers (equal quality) and I recommend staying away from Taiwanese made coilover setups such as D2 etc.
Recommendations: KYB AGX / Koni Yellow / Eibach
KYB and Koni are fairly readily available from local stockists and traders on this forum.
EDIT: Although I have experienced when changing the height with the Ground Control type kits the ride became stiffer thus increasing rebound force and the wear of the shocks..."string" has emphesised that he has not had these issues on his Ground Control/Koni Yellow Setup...so my criticism is withdrawn
That was longer than expected... -_-
Wow man thanks for the post, some great info there.
basically i want just for street, no track or racing. I just want firm handling, reduced role and lowerd to the top of my tyres
<e240 Edit: no need lah - keep it civil>
You can't be lowered to the top of your tyres and expect good handling on a street car - you wont' have enough suspension travel for the stiffness of the springs you go for. Riding on front bumpstops = terminal understeer, and unlimited driver frustration. I know this because I've been there and done it with stiffer springs than you will buy.
So what would u suggest then?
No idea, I'm just telling you that when you lower to the tyres, don't expect miracles.
Do you have a large rear swaybar? If not then you should.
Yeah i have been told its best to have some clearence.
What is the min. you would drop too before it starts affecting the things u talked about?
Sure. I have a mates car that has tokico shocks and ground control kit...which are both only about 2 years old (f/all k's about 15000) it is noticably softer than when he first got it. The car was sitting just above the tyres.Quote:
Originally Posted by string
Not with all shocks but you have to remember when you adjust the preload of a linear spring your also causing wear to the shock. ANY SPORTS SHOCK and non-"coilover" set up will wear quicker when used with a linear spring. By preloading a spring you increase its recoil or retraction force thus wearing the valves in the shocks much quicker. A suspension specialist from KYB said to me specificially in an email to NOT USE the ground control type kits.
<e240 Edit: no need lah - keep it civil> You ALSO have to pay close attention to the maximum rate and rebound that the shocks can handle. Remember most sports shocks are not designed for an adjustable spring perch, excluding the koni yellow's; however they do come with one already, so the valving would be stronger etc.
I also stay i would recommend...it wasn't an order...just a recommendation from personal experience.
On a EK I have no idea, the only way to truly know if you are on the bump-stops is to tie something around the shock shaft and see where it ends up.
Perhaps I over-estimate how much performance you're after, but a nice big rear swaybar (ITR) and some good shocks (even on your stock springs) will give you a great platform to start on.
ALL Springs are preloaded the instant you drop the car onto it's suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00ny
KYB and Tokico are garbage shocks if you are after performance - of course they're not recommended for anything but low spring rates.
Once you go linear springs, you'll never look back.
yeah but i want it lower and thos springs are gay
No Problems. The very reason why these forums exist ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio
<e240 Edit: no need lah - keep it civil>
The Ground Control kit is brilliant. I can adjust the height every day, and swap out springs at my leisure. My Koni's are a stiff as the day I installed them and I've absolutely no doubt as stiff as they day they are sold. I would recommend Koni/GC to anyone who is serious about getting into the depths of FWD handling (and it gets very deep).
Definantly don't doubt you there...I would prefer linear springs...but when I was first looking into suspension comfort and longetivety were of more importance at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by string
I don't really know where you substantiate your comment on KYB...I have to admit my experience with Tokico has been quite average...but my KYB shocks have been great...it would be good to independantly adjust the compression / rebound but honestly...i barely drive my car hard and its used on the street...Not really too fussed.
A mate has KYB Coilovers with 5Zigen springs and another mate has KYB Shocks with linear springs and both are VERY VERY strong performers...his coilovers have done at least 40,000 and would have to be sporting rates no less than 10kg/mm. Which is already on the border line of what Koni Yellows are valved for.
Also as said many of times...if you were serious about FWD handling buy a set of genuine BC/Fightex/Zeal coilovers coupled with good swaybars...and call it a day ;) NO Spring/Damper combo will match to a proper Coilover setup that is specifically engineered for performance and reliability.
LOL at dick waving...i wasn't the one who bought emotion into it, remember?
I apolgize for the rushed typing but I am in the middle of removing my intake manifold lol
I was looking into the exact kit when I was buying suspension...would be interesting to know how it handles on the street. Are your spring rates the same both front and rear?Quote:
Originally Posted by string
So anyway i have 2 options at the moment.
Skunk2 shocks with skunk2 progressive springs
OR
KYB shocks with skunk2 progressive springs
I have driven on both the KYB AGX and Koni Yellows (same as string) and personally the Koni's are a more solid performer and have nice rebound response. However, they are more expensive usually depending on the dealer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio
I would purchase KYB over Skunk2 I have heard many problems with the skunk2's quality HOWEVER it is all hearsay...not personal experience.
Yeah thats what im thinking, KYB do have a better rep.
I have 400lb front springs and 500lb rear springs, and a Whiteline 22mm rear sway-bar. I quite like the balance, but in the end it all comes down to the driver. It's so easy to think a car understeers when in actual fact it's probably just the driver's hack inputs.
I forget what the KYB AGX's were valved to handle linear spring rate wise...When i purchased my set-up it was with the intention of doing over 500kms a week however i got a new job very quickly so my car doesnt get driven anywhere near what it used to lol. Wouldn't mind getting Spoon Straights but after I get rims/Tyres.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio
My car is lowered probebly just at the level you want it with my current setup...but what i would recommend is do some research and email the companies and get actual specifications on what they are built to handle.
There are no rub marks at all so when i corner nothing rubs....so im not quite sure i have experienced what string is referring to when he is talking about when your car is that low it is definant understeer. However I can see where he is coming from.
Spring Rates wise if you want comfort as it sounds like, i probebly wouldnt recommend going higher than 6kg/mm max progressive or about 4-5kg/mm linear. Again depends on your impression of "comfort", i prefer a stiffer car...makes you feel connected to the road...who cares what my passengers think xD
i want performace i dont care about comfort atm
Well if you want to keep all 4 tyres the same size, then the only way to get good rotation out of a FWD is to start upping the rear stiffness. Big rear swaybar is a start. Do that first IMO. There's no point doing heaps of mods at once unless you just want to show off - the car will be much faster than the driver.
True. You'll find 90% of cars (even my own) have handling capabilities beyond that of the owners driving capabilities...some its a choice, some just aren't skilled enough or don't push there car for safety reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by string
As string suggests...install a larger rear swaybar first then start getting into springs/shocks. As for strut bars etc. I find that they don't directly help handling but make the car noticably more predictable and stable which increases driver's confidence and control.
Don't forget suspension/swaybars are nothing without grip...make sure you opt for at least some "semi-decent tyres" (eg. Bridgestone RE001, Yokohama S-Drives, Hankook RS2, Toyo T1R/S etc). Otherwise alot of it will be lost through poor ground contact.
Im running toyo T1'S at the moment, they are awesome rubber.
The reason i need shocks now is cause my old ones are ****ed and if i dont change them soon bad things may happen lol.
Ah. lol.
Best to go with the Spring Shock combo first then. As i said if you could afford it I would probebly recommend Spoon Straights w/ Koni Yellow. If not Koni's then KYB AGX. Unless your worried about comfort and in that case get progressives ;).
Dude, after reading a fair few of the posts you've made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00ny
You really don't receive enough credit from people.
Fantastic information!
The only form of "preloading" you can do with the Ground Control kit is in order to keep the spring captive much like a stock spring. Once the weight of the car comes down, the final length of the spring will be the same regardless of where you place the spring perch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00ny
Thank-You.Quote:
Originally Posted by lil_foy
I'm not in it 4DCRDT im in it 4DLULZ...haha...seriously though I just share knowledge that i beleive will help out either the uninformed or misinformed ;)
Kept to PM. Prefer not to flood. Edited Original Post.Quote:
Originally Posted by string
Hit spoony with some REP POINTS, i did, he deserves it.
Who sells Koni yellows on here, anyone?
This dude does hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Gio
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55668
Thanks bro, **** i need under a grand :(
1000 is my limit, hit me with some ideas?
have it lower then, if its something for street and looks then by all meansQuote:
Originally Posted by Gio
dont expect to think ull hug corners on rails
good shocks and springs is a start
camber kit and swaybar is the difference ;)
Swaybar yes but unless your installing a camber kit for a detailed wheel alignment...(presuming your just installing it to remove negative camber) it would negatively effect handling and cornering grip but improve straight line grip.Quote:
Originally Posted by hastE
Honestly, you would be better off waiting, saving and getting the best your money and your financial situation will allow. If you just purchase springs you will regret it later. I would look on American Ebay and see if anything pops up. If your willing to save for a while I would recommend the Buddy Club N+ if not a Ground Control/Spoon Spring combo with KYB AGX or Koni's (again if your finances allow).
KYB AGX + Spoon Springs (Exact drop you wanted) New <$1200
Koni + Spoon Prog. Springs (Unsure of Drop) New >$1400++
Unsure of Spoon Straight/Ground Control prices considering the AU$ is r00ted at the minute you would be best to probebly buy locally.
I was thinking of selling my combo in order to purchase a set of FIGHTEX coilovers...but I decided to buy wheels instead...however if your willing to wait we may be able to arrange something. Pretty sure modification would be required to fit DC2 suspension into an EK...would have to ask around.
u think just bc u drop the car u have camber for cornering?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00ny
camber kit is available bc honda have crap camber tops that dont have camber adjustment.
getting a good alignment on shocks and springs would be as good if not better then coils.
EDIT: who would pay for a camber kit to remove negative camber on a honda?
Alot of people pay to remove it due to abnormal tyre wear and the lazyness not to get tyres rotated regularly.Quote:
Originally Posted by hastE
Then imagine good alignment on coils ;) it just continues on...in general depending how well the springs are engineered the negative camber they give will improve cornering over the stock camber angles. eg. The spoon springs i suggested are designed to give a drop that provides negative camber which has been tested to improve handling.
I agree, a good wheel alignment can make the world of difference but camber adjustment kits (particularly for the front) for honda's seem to have some serious design/strength flaws...i personally would prefer to spend $400 more on suspension and then get a good wheel alignment later...your better of doing everything properly from the start if you're going to go into that much detail.
a $5000 suspension is nothing with a shit alignment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00ny
ppl spend $400 to remove camber wear with less handling?
only ppl that i know would spend money to remove negative camber, are high powered rear wheel cars that drives like on ice.
want great handling? go more negative.
I agree to an extent. My mate has 5zigen coilovers probebly 14/12 with a desperate need for alignment. Compared to an ITR with Shock/Spring with alignment there is no competition his still enters corners faster accelerates out of corners and is much much more responsive.Quote:
Originally Posted by hastE
I honestly do know heaps of people who buy camber kits to remove negative camber or at the very least return it to stock. People don't want to spend money on tyres...they maybe noobs in your eyes...but if performance isnt your sole concern...then I suppose they don't see the point...
Anyway keep to PM as its flooding the Thread. Cheers.
Decided on KYB shorened shocks and eibach springs
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ACURA...mZ350136048659
Does anyone think these are worth it?
Yeah mate they are cheap for those springs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type S Tony
One of the traders sells them here.
Check there prices for comparison.
Sweet as, Still deciding weather to go springs or coilovers, the car isnt going to see any track time so its just basically for street, Had springs only in my last car and it seemed to work sweet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio
1 grand limit = Rear Swaybar + Best Tyres you can afford. Nothing else will come close.
i can get good prices on eibach springs if anyone is interested
In the interest of great suspension discussion, this is incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00ny
Preloading the spring simply means that when the unit is completly extended to full droop, the spring is still compressed whatever amount.
Once the cars weight has been lowered onto the unit, the spring is compressed by the cars weight, just as before.
So the cars weight is now compressing the spring, lets say 10mm.
If you preload the spring say 5mm, then when you put the cars weight on the unit, the spring will only go down another 5mm, to make 10mm of spring compression from the cars weight.
The weight of the car dosnt change.
The spring rate dosnt change.
Therefore the spring will compress the same amount as before, 10mm, laws of physics.
The force on the shocks dont change, springs still exerting the same force.
Since you preloaded the spring 5mm, what will change is how far the unit compresses with the cars weight placed on it. Now 5mm, instead of 10mm.
So preloading the spring 5mm will reduce your droop travel by 5mm, and increase your travel by 5mm.
He is a complete and utter doofus then, unless he's refering to the fact that there are tons of crappy made, dangerous adjustable sleeves on the market, or he thought it might help make the buisness a sale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp00ny
Properly made kits (ground control for example), are perfectly safe, and have ZERO negative effects on handling.
Or in more basic terms, lowering the perch of a shock by whatever means, will not change the way it performs AT ALL, apart from making the unit shorter, increasing droop travel, and decreasing the travel, just like a coilover unit (with adjustable spring perch).
Its the EXACT same effect as using a shorter spring, of the same stiffness, in your non adjustable shocks. lowers your height, increases your droop decreases your travel.
Agree 100%, Absolutly brilliant setup the gc/eibach/koni combo, like so many others its what im running.Quote:
Originally Posted by string
Not overpriced at all (way cheaper than Coilovers of any sort), absolutly superb performance (better than most entry level coilover units), and a service life of years and years, 5-10 years isnt uncommon with these shocks (very much unlike most entry level coilovers), good support here in australia for shock rebuilds/re-valving (unlike 90% of entry level coilover manifactuers, most cant even be serviced/rebuilt lol), etc and you can choose any spring rates you want. :thumbsup:
Back when the AU$ was going good (actualy thinking back it was still down around $0.75Us, or so) i got my G/c, koni eibach combo for like $1150 or somthing. $700 or so for the shocks, $450 for my eibach G/C setup (450lb/in-f 400lb/in-r). Theres a trader on honda-tech who sells each shock for $125 us each iirc.
The guys name can be found in my diy write-up somwhere i believe - http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...highlight=koni
For the cost, i honestly believe there in no better combo out there AT ALL!
these are rough estimates if you want bang for your buck. the ek9 shocks will give about 2 inch gap between tyre and fender. if you arent happy with the height you can purchase lowering springs later on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio
ek9 shocks - 300
asr brace - 300
rear swaybar - 150
front swaybar - 150
front control arms for front swaybar - 100
get some ksport coilovers man. They're the ones i'm rockin.
I've heard people getting them for 990 ish. Would be good for your price range. May have to stretch to 1100 inc postage. but i doubt it. :thumbsup:
There ya go Gio, if your gunna stick to under a grand, id go with what Jason said! Then when you get some more cash, just get a rear swaybar, and you'l have a great handling car, and you can adjust the ride hight, and shock stiffness to your pleasure :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonGilholme
he's sussy is already in guys i installed it for him
What'd he get?
in all honesty, if you are on a tight budget, i wouldnt bother with coilovers. i would definately choose koni yellow shocks + ground control sleeves (which use eibach springs)
even though they are about the same price as cheap coilovers, i'd go for this spring/shock combo, no second thoughts about it
find more info on honda-tech
Eibach springs and i can't remember what shocks
i think they are KYB
ahhhhhhhhhhh.
Ksport ftw. hehehe. I don't even have my rsb hooked up and it handles great with these coilovers.
Although, Gio was right up my ass on that last mt gravatt cruise so he's got good sussy :thumbsup:
Monoflex FTW :pQuote:
Originally Posted by JasonGilholme
:p
I just want my rear sway bar hooked up already! lol
I miss it. Understeer sucks man.
Unfortunately Jase with the exchange rate the k-sport prices have been pushed out to 1600+, so they are not really in the budget anymore haha.
For that price, definately go with a trusted spring/shock combo.
im after sussy for my dc2, im planning on getting skunk2 springs and running them on my current KYB.
Im a cheap ass....but i cant forget how nice ( but risky getting the rite set for the money ) coilovers would be.
Ive changed my mind about my decision 2 times and almost a 3rd now. Im just leaning towards the skunk cos because they should deliver wat i want, lowness with less body roll and tighter handeling then my current kings. Ive also seen a car with skunks go down my drive way and ive ridden it one. ( only they has skunk shocks also..)
WHAT i wanted to saw was, yes with the exchange rate Coilovers have gone up, pushing the price tag even higher. However the springs have gone up too. I was thinking 260 would be a bargen for the skunk springs but now they are like 380...
**** i still dont know :P
keep your kyb, and put spoon progressive springs on them.