Has anyone done one before? Any info with help. I know Ek9 brake conversion will be easier, but I want better brake performance plus I don't want to change my 4x100 stud pattern.
Cheers guys
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Has anyone done one before? Any info with help. I know Ek9 brake conversion will be easier, but I want better brake performance plus I don't want to change my 4x100 stud pattern.
Cheers guys
anythings possible with money, engineering and fabrication, but most tend to go down the ek9 route as its more than enough for the car, anything bigger than they usually opt for willwood or spoon 4 pot calipers.
imo, i dont think the ek Brake booster will handle the Rx7 brakes, as they are much bigger, which is why they prbz wont work effectively...
and....You dont need to change ur stud pattern at all, just swap out the calipers and rotors with a 3 mm spacer, add the ek9 Brake booster and MC and ur done....
I got B18c in my Ek, Ek9 brake made be just enough but I don't want to change stud pattern and my wheels just like a lot of guys in here.
Wilwood brake calipers don't have dust cover, not ADR approve,
Second hand Spoon 4 pot calipers is the idea what I want, but too hard to find, also way over price.
Normal Ek Brake booster and MC is ok to use Rx7 Fc 4 pot brake calipers, I already confirm with my local engineering guy. Just need to find the way to do the fabrication.
I guess if I can do it cheaper the ek9 brake conversion, a lot of people in here would be interest. How much is the Ek9 brake conversion this day?
Have you even visited any workshops? If you're located in Melbourne visit Auto Racing Technik/Technik tuning. They do plenty of brake kit fabrications.
DC2R Calipers, JDMyard Spacer and Re-Drilled DC2R Rotors which can also be sourced from JDMyard. Best Bang for buck brake conversion you will ever have.
i dont see how fabricating rx7 brakes to fit ek hub will even be adr approved vs the willwood upgrade lol.... but if it is, than it is...
If u only have a mild modded ek b18c, Ek9 brakes are more than enough... And they are 1 inch bigger than ek brakes, 282mm vs ek 262mm, as ive said above, u dont need to change stud pattern at all, just the rotors to fit the stud pattern ;)
if ur still insistent on making the calipers fit, visit workshops as above, wont be cheap but.....
i believe rx7 use like 294mm or 314mm rotors, which is quite big for a small car like an ek, than tryna source rotors that size, and than fitting onto the hub, than also factoring the offset of rims and size of rims to fit over the larger calipers/rotor size
Just put some good brake pads on seriously you have 262's already and it's just an EK not a Chrysler 300C that you're trying to stop lol
I am not leave in Melbourne, but I did went to see my local engineering workshop, still working out the best way to fabrication.
I have tried the Ek9 brake upgrade on a Ek4 before, not bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen_ctr
The Rx7 Fc brake conversion had a lot better performance also it is ADR approve I already confirm. if the cost I can afford I will go this way, otherwise I take your advise, go to Ek9 calipers and re-drill rotors with a 3 mm spacer. Thank for all your advise.
I did bit of research myself and found you better off going with EK9 front setup over the RX7 Fc
My reason are
1) Everyone says it best bang for bang and everything bolt up with minor machining and 3 mm spacer
2) the surface area on the DC2R/EK9 pads are more than RX7 FC seen in the two link's below
The RX7 1986-1999
http://www.bendix.com.au/catalogue/8568
The DC2R 1997-2001
http://www.bendix.com.au/catalogue/7934
3) Keep it all Honda OEM Yo
That is good advise, looking at the photo, the surface area on the DC2R/EK9 pads are little bit more than RX7 Fc, but what about the brake pots size? Do you have any research done? I know the DC2R/EK9 is 2 pots caliper and Fc is 4 pots. caliperQuote:
Originally Posted by pat88c
Far as I know the dc2r/ek9 are big single pot (can someone else comfirm)
If you did want more pistons you can go spoon setup which use oem dc2r/ek9 brake pad size but with more force with 4 pots
The nsx is 2 pots
Everyone uses dc2r setup as it best though for what you got just need to upgrade mc
Make me want do same to 282mm dc2r setup
Can someone post up total price for parts
EK9/DC2R front caliper are single piston
NSX front caliper are 2 pistons.
We usually use 282mm Prelude rotors and redrilled them to 4x100
PM me if you guys need pricing for spacers and rotors redrilled
As far as pricing goes, his my list:Quote:
Originally Posted by pat88c
1. dc2/ek9 1 inch master cylinder + booster $ 150 - 250
2. Ek9/ITR/CRV Calipers $ 150 - 250
3. 282mm Rotors $ 100 - 500 (depending on what u use and branding etc etc... Contact JDMyard for prices)
4. Brake pads $ 100 - 500
5. 3mm Spacer (as on JDMyard) $ 55
You can either machine the caliper bracket or use spacers
[QUOTE=mugen_ctr;3241431]As far as pricing goes, his my list:
1. dc2/ek9 1 inch master cylinder + booster $ 150 - 250
2. Ek9/ITR/CRV Calipers $ 150 - 250
3. 282mm Rotors $ 100 - 500 (depending on what u use and branding etc etc... Contact JDMyard for prices)
4. Brake pads $ 100 - 500
5. 3mm Spacer (as on JDMyard) $ 55
You can either machine the caliper bracket or use spacers
Sorry give wrong info guys, didn't know the Ek9/Dc2R are only single piston. In that case, make me even more want to do the Rx7 4 pistons caliper converison. I will price up Rx7 calipers converison here very soon.
shaddup with the dumb brake calipers question eg. DC5 BRAKES ON EK
[QUOTE=xeno;3241654]lol, thought u knew that..... regardless how many piston it has, the EK9/ITR setup still gonna bite hard with good pads and rotors, and its been proven time after time, on track and with hill climbs....Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen_ctr
but hey if its cheaper, let us know, mite b keen on it in the future... gl with it champ
What size disc will you be using on your rx7 setup?
Are you going to track your setup or use onthe street
And got at the moment?
IMO best go dc2r/ek9 setup as it works
But if you are willing to spend around $2k you can get spoon 4 pot setup which is still hood for pads you can buy aftermarket cheap
[QUOTE=mugen_ctr;3241678]Far as I can see it, EK9/ITR setup design to stop a 1100kg car and Rx7 setup design to stop a 1300kg to 1400kg car. What do you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by xeno
Going to use 282mm rotorsQuote:
Originally Posted by pat88c
At this stage street, made be track late.
Ek gli setup at the moment.
Because I don't want to spend $2k that why I going for Rx7 calipers setup.
I had a word with Ray from Auto Racing Technik/Technik Tuning regarding this. He will check if he has any pre fabricated sets of the rx7 kits left over.
They have tested this setup on EK's and dc2r's, on the track, and have found better results from Nissan 4 pots.
lol, you're still going to have the same braking as a dc2r/ek9 setup with the rx7 calipers, all you'll have is better heat control and more even pressure across the pad.Quote:
Originally Posted by xeno
I would say less than dc2r/ek9 as you going have less surface area but as you said lil_foy tiny bit better heat control and better brake pressureQuote:
Originally Posted by lil_foy
I know dc2r/ek9 brakes are cast iron, heavy
Are rx7 brakes alloy? Bit lighter?
That the only reason I do it (less upsprung weight) but then again I would just stay with 262mm da9 setup I have atm with good pads and disc
In you case it upgrade ek4 262mm
enough said by me but ask all the k series eg ad ek what brake use most will say dc2r setup
I personally use a 282 dc2r setup with good pads and rotors, they overpower my tyres (205 RSR) so easy, personally I doubt he'd be using the extra heat benifits anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by pat88c
OP just get some crv/prelude calipers (same as dc2r) and some decent rotors and pads, they will function just as good as rx7 brakes and you'll have less mucking around trying to get them to fit.
Funny think is, before I design go to Rx7 brake calipers, the engineering guy got a Nissan R33 gt-st 4 pots calipers on sale. After he have look how much time and effort going doing the fabrication into the Ek. He said" I better off with the Rx7 calipers, it going to be a lot easy to do the fabrication. Performance compare Rx7 calipers to Nissan R33 gt-st caliper they are not much of the difference. The only difference is Nissan calipers I have to use Nissan oem brake rotors size cannot go any smaller and that is become the issues. Example the height of the brake rotors, the thickness of the brake rotors and the most problem is the Centre Hole Dia. I believe Auto Racing Technik should already overcome with these problem. You said "they already do a test on the car before. Just out of interest, how much are they charging to do a Nissan 4 pots conversion on a Ek?Quote:
Originally Posted by khanguskhan
Rx7 calipers setup same as a dc2r/ek9 setup. I don't know about that. I believe no one in here had a Rx7 calipers setup. So how do you found out they're the same performance. Have you found out a link in the net, some one already done a test for it? please link up here if you do. So everyone can see it Thank. I do agree it going to be better heat control and more even pressure across the pad.Quote:
Originally Posted by lil_foy
I when to the brake engineering shop today, and I did ask him about the size of the two difference brake pads, is going to be much difference in performance. He look at me and said "No". He said "about the same". But he also said "single piston vs 4 pistons". He go for 4 pistons any day.Quote:
Originally Posted by pat88c
Weight difference I don't know. Just not really interest me, but I can found out for you.
All were saying is, it might not be as cheap as you would think as opposed to going the ek9/itr swap....and again, its been proven once.. track/hill climb, remember, its also the brake pad u use that is a major factor to the stopping power, anything that needs custom fabrication is gonna be costly, weather its cnc milling, or custom weld job thats designed to with stand enormousness brake pressure
Its just less headaches... for the trouble ur goin through, using rx7 brakes is pretty pointless on a ek, as u pointed out earlier, the 282mm ek9/itr/crv brakes are infact designed to stop a 1500kg car, not 1000kg
Unless the cars gonna b a stripped out track car with more than 200kw, than id consider using this method, if it was cheaper than wilwood/spoon setup over the dc2r setup
You don't have to doubt about I am not using the extra heat benefits. I can tell you now. I will and I need it. I don't drive like a gran mum. People who know me in personal. They know how I drive.Quote:
Originally Posted by lil_foy
As I said" if the Rx7 setup is going to be too costly. I will go for the ek9/itr/crv brakes setup. Take a guess how much do you think going to cost me for the Rx7 brake setup in a brake performance engineering shop. Remind you one think, this setup is going to be ADR approve. I did think about second hand spoon calipers, but is it ADR approve. Can someone confirm that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen_ctr
I will find out for you. Fabrication wasn't an issue for them. The picture in the link is one of their latest fabrications. Aston Martin DB9 6 pot Alcon Caliper + brembo 356mm rotor on 17 inch Rims Subaru STi. CUSTOM BY AutoRacingTechnik AustraliaQuote:
Originally Posted by xeno
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1212958_n.jpg
You're using a 282 rotor still, you're still going to have the same rotational torque, and as someone stated, rx7 pads have less surface area apparently anyways..Quote:
Originally Posted by xeno
Im curious, what setup do you have atm, what engine combo do you have? I doubt you'd be able to push a dc2r setup to the limit tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by xeno
Of course fabrication wasn't an issue. Just matters if worth the money and effort in the end. I can get a Ap racing setup if I willing to spend around $2G. I already got a quote from a work shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by khanguskhan
You don't have to doubt I cannot push the dc2r setup to the limit, beside you don't need big power to push the brake system. I race my Rx7 Fc on the track. I know how to push the brake to the limit. As I said before, I did tried the Ek4 with Ek9 brake setup. I know how good are they.Quote:
Originally Posted by lil_foy
The Rx7 brake pad had less surface area than the Dc2r surface area because it doesn't need it. During the number of pistons difference, if you know what I mean. Put in this way, I see a lot of Aftermarket upgrade 4,6,8 pistons calipers kit. I never see a Aftermarket Large single piston caliper upgrade kit. If you can find it, let me know. I don't think there are many.
Just like I pointed out earlier before, the Rx7 calipers was design for a heavier car plus the car had a turbo. I really don't see why the Rx7 setup going to be worst than the Ek9/Dc2r setup. Just common sense.
Right now I'm using 4 pots on 300mm at the fronts. This was a kit made by ART for DC5 and DC2s. my stock DC2R brakes had ZERO problems in stopping my car, mainly due to my car not really seeing anything higher than 160-170. And after I had these 4 pots put in, which ART rate the build quality and performance better than the rx7's tested. I'm an amateur at driving, but the amount of self induced over steering happens really easily, on straights too.
The stopping power I get is awesome, but it really is overwhelming, I'm in the process of getting a gurney and brake biasing valve to deal with this problem. And sadly, I'm not even using ART's way more aggressive custom pads for it.
My knowledge is balls compared to you guys. But for me straight up it's like this, when do you need 4 pots? When your car is over a certain weight e.g 1200kg, gets up to 170km/h, you slam the brakes, and you're getting really shit clamp on your current brakes. So we 4 pot that sh*t.
So if you are really pushing it that much and need that much more clamping power than yea. But just saying, it doesn't feel good straight away, just making sure you know that what you're getting is very overpowering, hence why lot of the guys here are recommending much more reasonable options. That are meant to be enough for your usage.
How much power are you making? don't tell me youre rocking a d series lol.
I only drive a stock DC2R dude
lol not you man, the op.Quote:
Originally Posted by khanguskhan
It's a b18C EK
For your over steering problem have talk to a brake engineering shop? Before I looking to do the 4 pot calipers, I already know this going to be a problem. My advise is go to see a brake engineering guy and let them adjust the proportion vale. You will find big difference if they adjust probably. Good luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by khanguskhan
I already told you i'm already working on the problem, anyway nevermind, i tried. I will check if they have any kits laying around that might help you.
Have you ever driven a car on the track with a dc2r setup? And what rotor/pad combo are you thinking of running in the rx7 setup?Quote:
Originally Posted by xeno
You do realise that more pistons in a caliper doesnt mean you're going to stop faster, it will give you more even pad distribution which may have a slight positive effect on braking, in saying that, you'll be running less pad surface area so you'll have less braking capability from that alone. The reason alot of oem parts are single sliding design is cost, its cheaper to make then a multi pot caliper.
You do realise that the dc2r uses the exact same caliper as a CRV, Prelude, Ek9, Odyssey, etc. Many of which weigh more then a dc2r. An nsx also uses the EXACT same pad as a dc2r and they also use a 282 rotor as well.
If you'd like to give me an explanation of how dc2r 282 setup running the same rotor and pad compounds as a rx7 setup is going to stop slower then a Rx7 setup, then please, i'm all ears, but logically if you have 282mm of rotor you're only going to have X amount of rotational force, if you want more get a larger rotor or better rotor/pad. You just seem like a typical blind fanboy imo.
Most important out of any of this is can your tyres hold up to the extra braking? (what tyres are you using?)
Sorry man, miss that part. my bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by khanguskhan
First thing first, I never said the dc2r setup going to stop slower than the Rx7 setup. Don’t put word in my month. I don’t have that knowledge to said which one going to better performance I take the Dc2r brake setup info and the Rx7 brake setup info to a qualifier brake engineering guy and he said the Rx7 setup better, not me but to be fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by lil_foy
I think in the cars modifiers world even same setup, one made make better performance than other. I see that a lot of time. Without two setup side by side put it into the same car, do a road test. No one can said which one going to be better.
A lot of guys in here must ask. Why I choose Rx7 calipers conversion. I got a Rx7 and I race on the track and I find oem setup they had brake fade after I finish one track day (brake pads is cross over pad, not a race pad) I was happy with the oem performance. If I’m not going to the track, the oem setup is more than enough for the street. I bought a (RE-Amemiya racing calipers make by Brembo) with App 335mm light weight 2 pieces rotors for my 7. Rx7oem brakes going to civic.
I didn’t drive a car with dc2r brake setup, but I did race with a Dc2r on the track with my 7 oem brake. 200km down straight side by side brake in to the corner. We nearly brake in the same time. I was driving inside lane. I had to brake harder before I can get grip on the tyres to take the corner. That my experience. If you going to ask me Is he a good driver or what brake pads did he use or what engine mod did he do. Answer is I don’t know, all I know is the car got strip out interior, got a roll cage and we both using semi slick and his car is lighter than my car.
You asked a qualified brake engineering guy...Maybe. But youre forgetting that they will not suggest the DC2R/EK9 combo because if they do, they will have lose some income from you lol
I Thank for people who advice me to the Ek9 or Dc2r brake setup. I tried to be nice and fair for people who got or vote for the Ek9 or Dc2r brake setup but look like, not going to work. Some people would like to start a product comparative argument. Please read the writing below first.Quote:
Originally Posted by henrygiang
I did ask two high performances & high reputation workshop, one is working on my brake conversion which I’m not telling you. Other one is PWR which most of you know they built high quality products and sale Alcon high performances brake kits to high performances cars. I don’t think anybody in here has better knowledge than those guys, most important thing is, they don’t sale any brake upgrade kit for Ek. So there advice is most neutral no incomes lose. I just ask them about the Dc2r brake setup and the Rx7 setup. And he told me expect answer, go for Rx7 setup. If anybody want to know why please give them a call. I am tired writing comparative report. If you believe you had better knowledge than PWR engineering guys, good on you, you should open a workshop and make some money good luck.
For people who don’t know PWR performance have look at the link below below.http://www.pwr.com.au/#/view=home/
I know next things most people going to compare are the cost to do the setup. I got the price up, $660 include mod the Rx7 calipers to fit, customer bracket and 282mm rotors. If I need to adjust my proportion vale, is only $85. I don’t know is that what you guys call costly, but for me is not.
Another 4 piston choice maybe Skyline.. just a thought
http://www.ek9.org/forum/brakes/1712...2-r33-ek9.html
Go for it man, works out the same as dc2r setup.... keen on the results on an ek...... i was under the impression u needed bigger rotors to run it? or is it fine to run smaller rotors than that of the rx7?Quote:
Originally Posted by xeno
I am getting it done. Next week the workshop should be finish the kits and by the end of February it should be on my car. Can't wait to test it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen_ctr
It is Rx7 Fc calipers, oem rotor only 277mm. 282mm rotor no problem at all. I see a tune shop mod the Fc calipers to fit a lot bigger rotor, see this link. http://roninspeedworks.squarespace.c...le-big-brakes/
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1590cc
Great link, show me weight of the brakes and the different between stock ek9/dc2r caliper weight (5.3kg) to spoon caliper (2.4kg) upgrade kit 282mm disc
which is saving weight of almost 2.5kg
You will feel that different which like wheels, Cast iron OEM are big heavy 18s(spec style LOL) to alloy Spoon's light weight 15s or 16s but they come at a high cost to have that weight saving
Going R32 GTS T front brakes look like good option too but need 16s or 17s rims but still have smaller pad area over Dc2r/ek9 brake pad but more pad force
And the R33 again is even better with bigger disc
light weight front brakes i'll go spoon but for performance and low buget go i'll go r32 or r33 but will need 16" rims more cost
And at the end of the day you will choose the best option you think is best for you
Pat
Yes, it is a good choose if you got 16" or 17" wheels. For me, I don't want to spend $ for another set of the wheel that why I go for Rx7 calipers.Quote:
Originally Posted by pat88c
Somebody needs to post up that picture of all the sheep that represents the Honda community. People here are so set in their ways and all mod their cars exactly the same. You gotta give props to people who think outside the box and look into custom fab work. No wonder Hondas have no respect in the modified car world these days.
I finally fitted my Rx7 fc calipers to my civic ek. Great stopping power "may be little bit too quick" The car doesn't have ABS. I was driving on the rain when I pick up my car first time, It was bit scary. I was lock my brake up 2 times, thank for the idiot driver on the road, they suddenly slow down their cars. I'm getting use to it now . Overall I am happy. Someone in here said Skyline calipers is better, I don't think I want anything better.
ps Without ABS system, big increase stopping power can be scary. Unless you know how to handle it.
any pics of how they are mounted???
No, It is customer bracket make by BHSS in Brisbane.Quote:
Originally Posted by IEVAQ8
can u take a wheel off and show us how they look and wat sort of bracket was made...Quote:
Originally Posted by xeno
i dont want to copy, im just curious...
Yes, I will can some photo up when I got time. I don't think it is easy to copy it, beside you need low offset wheels to fit this kits.