REVIEW: Don't bother installing voltage stabilizer?- with pics and comments

EDIT - review starts at post 9 below
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As subject suggests - does anyone have photos of where they put the grounding wires when installing a voltage stabilizer for the Euro specifically (particularly the Pivot one?). I have seen Aaron's gheto wiring thread but I am looking particularly for the Pivot if possible.

I just got the kit and noted the wires are not particularly long - may need to get some longer ones.

I also took voltage measurements today of the vehicle under many different circumstances (eg headlights on and then turning on air con - engine idle). I recorded the movements in the volts and what it stabilized to. I did about 5 or 6 different tests. Will be interesting what the figures are with the stabiliser fitted (tomorrow).

Mmmm interesting.i've been wondering if one of these is worth getting.i'd be int.to see some figures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yfin

As subject suggests - does anyone have photos of where they put the grounding wires when installing a voltage stabilizer for the Euro specifically (particularly the Pivot one?). I have seen Aaron's gheto wiring thread but I am looking particularly for the Pivot if possible.

I just got the kit and noted the wires are not particularly long - may need to get some longer ones.

I also took voltage measurements today of the vehicle under many different circumstances (eg headlights on and then turning on air con - engine idle). I recorded the movements in the volts and what it stabilized to. I did about 5 or 6 different tests. Will be interesting what the figures are with the stabiliser fitted (tomorrow).

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The Pivot is a generic kit. So the cable lengths might be too long or too short for the Euro. What I suggest is to avoid creating ground loops, where you give a component 2 paths to go to ground. The engine block and transmission case grounds are pretty good. But you could benefit from grounding the sensor ground that is under the intake manifold cover.

Here are pics from leaner's ground kit installation on his Euro (buddyclub)

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpos...8&postcount=35

Thanks Aaron - I am somewhat dissapointed with the wires Pivot supply (a 40, 50, 60, 80 and 100cm). I haven't checked yet but I am almost certain there is no way I can possibly reach the alternator with 100cm.

Do you have pics of your engine block and tranny case ground points?
And what is the sensor you are referring to? If you have detailed pics of your engine bay that would be great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yfin

Thanks Aaron - I am somewhat dissapointed with the wires Pivot supply (a 40, 50, 60, 80 and 100cm). I haven't checked yet but I am almost certain there is no way I can possibly reach the alternator with 100cm.

Do you have pics of your engine block and tranny case ground points?
And what is the sensor you are referring to? If you have detailed pics of your engine bay that would be great.

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Yeah, the Pivot's kit uses 6 gauge cable. That's thinner than the 4 gauge I used. What you can do is to use the Pivot's capacitor box, while using your own cable which you can buy from Jaycar.

Sorry, don't have pics, but you can find them easily in your engine bay. The engine block ground is the braided wire on the driver's side engine mount. It's where an engine torque damper would be mounted. The transmission case ground is under your airbox. If you take off the airbox, you'll see it just underneath, the same braided wire. The sensor ground is the ground point for all the electricals, including ECU. It's an important ground that is connected to the intake manifold. Take off your intake manifold cover and you'll see a few thin cables bolted to the manifold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Yeah, the Pivot's kit uses 6 gauge cable. That's thinner than the 4 gauge I used. What you can do is to use the Pivot's capacitor box, while using your own cable which you can buy from Jaycar.

The engine block ground is the braided wire on the driver's side engine mount. It's where an engine torque damper would be mounted. The transmission case ground is under your airbox. If you take off the airbox, you'll see it just underneath, the same braided wire. The sensor ground is the ground point for all the electricals, including ECU. It's an important ground that is connected to the intake manifold. Take off your intake manifold cover and you'll see a few thin cables bolted to the manifold.

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Top stuff - those descriptions are enough for me to find those points. I think I have long enough cables to reach those points and perhaps I will make one of your ghetto cables to reach the alternator :thumbsup:

I was supposed to help my friend do it but he started before I arrived, at the very same time and saw him meddling his wires in the engine bay, I saw fireworks coming out of the engine bay.....

Don't forget to D/C the battery before you wire them up! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EuroAccord13

I was supposed to help my friend do it but he started before I arrived, at the very same time and saw him meddling his wires in the engine bay, I saw fireworks coming out of the engine bay.....

Don't forget to D/C the battery before you wire them up! :D

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haha - even the Pivot instructions as bad as they are make that clear!

Installed the Pivot Voltage Stabiliser today. Pics below. We ended up using all the wires provided by Pivot (connecting to body earth, near cylinder head, the ecu sensor under the intake manifold cover, the alternator and transmission case).

Now my rudimentary understanding of the Pivot is that it stabilises voltage fluctuations. Is this supposed to happen when the car is running or only when starting? Does anyone know. Because read on. I took some readings of the voltage before and after installing the kit (using a feature of the Apexi RSM). In both cases the car was warm and at idle (around 650rpm with no accelerator applied). The readings were taken one day apart.

BEFORE
Base line no accessories on = 13.9 or 14.0
AFTER
Base line no accessories on = 13.9 or 14.0

BEFORE
High beam flash and hold high beam voltage reading = drop to 13.4 then stabilises at 13.9
AFTER
NO CHANGE

BEFORE
Air con turn on = drop to 13.1/13.2 then stabilises to 13.7/13.8
AFTER
NO CHANGE

BEFORE
Headlights on = drop to 13.7 then stabilises to 13.9
AFTER
NO CHANGE

BEFORE
Headlights and fog lights on = drop to 13.7 then stabilises to 13.8
AFTER
NO CHANGE

BEFORE
Headlights and fog lights and high beam = drop to 13.7 then stabilises to 13.8
AFTER
NO CHANGE

BEFORE
Headlights, fogs, air con drop to 12.7/12.8 then stabilises to 12.5 or 12.6
AFTER
NO CHANGE

Result: I see no "voltage stabilisation" when accessories are turned on or off. Just in case someone asks - yes I have the genuine Pivot model (as verified from the Pivot website as to the markings only seen on the genuine model). And as to whether or not I installed it correctly I had it installed by a motor mechanic (aka my dad!). Pivot blue light is on and working. Can someone explain why this product doesn't stabilise voltage or is this just a marketing ploy?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMG_3664.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMG_3663.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMG_3662.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMG_3661.jpg

This started off in the Euro forum - but it has turned more into a review of this product generally so I have moved it. Interested in comments please.

My guess is your factory grounding wires are good enough to do the job already.

This kit is probably most effective (and difference noticeable) on older cars with either thinner ground cables and/or corroded, deteriorating cables.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SiReal

My guess is your factory grounding wires are good enough to do the job already.

This kit is probably most effective (and difference noticeable) on older cars with either thinner ground cables and/or corroded, deteriorating cables.

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I think that is right in relation to the grounding wires - but Pivot also claims voltage stabilisation through its capacitors. Shouldn't that work regardless of the vehicle age?

Yfin! You made a ground loop! Take off the original negative terminal to chassis ground!

Where did you locate your capacitor box?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SiReal

My guess is your factory grounding wires are good enough to do the job already.

This kit is probably most effective (and difference noticeable) on older cars with either thinner ground cables and/or corroded, deteriorating cables.

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Yup! Very true!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Yfin! You made a ground loop! Take off the original negative terminal to chassis ground!

Where did you locate your capacitor box?

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Ok will do now and see if any different - but it is easier to remove the Pivot wire that goes there. The box is located on the side of the battery.

Removed the Pivot wire going to earth next to battery - re executed all the tests. Nothing hsa changed - those numbers are the same. This capacitor in the Pivot does nothing from what I can see in terms of voltage regulation.

looks pretty tho!

Anyway, I don't think the RSM can react fast enough to do the measurements. You need an oscilloscope.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Anyway, I don't think the RSM can react fast enough to do the measurements. You need an oscilloscope.

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You are too kind to Pivot Aaron! :D I think the product doesn't do all they claim it does - or at least the claims are exaggerated. The drops in voltage are still occuring. If this product truly stabilised voltage I would not see the same drops before and after fitment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yfin

You are too kind to Pivot Aaron! :D I think the product doesn't do all they claim it does - or at least the claims are exaggerated. The drops in voltage are still occuring. If this product truly stabilised voltage I would not see the same drops before and after fitment.

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Nah, I personally don't think these things work. Better to spend that $100 to get a better battery. but to measure voltage spikes, you need an oscilloscope which is able to visualise spikes that are over 200Hz.

My understanding of these devices is that they work like a capacitor in your car audio. Ie, supply that bit extra to the system when the drain is more than the system can cope with. A new car like these should not need this device and a decent battery will do the job if you are running extra toys off the stock system. Aaronng is right about the speed of the meter picking up the spikes. Try using an analogue meter as your eyes will be able to pick up the slightest movement of the needle and they do not have filtering to slow down the measurement.

shame to hear you spent the money and with no real improvement.

thanks for the thorough posts tho!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris_F

shame to hear you spent the money and with no real improvement.

thanks for the thorough posts tho!

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yeah, I took a hit for the Ozhonda team. Thanks for your comments too Claymore.:wave: Just checked the lights - seem to be the same brightness and they dim the same when the air-con is turned on.

BUT wait there is more! One difference I did notice is this. Ordinarily if I turn the key to accessory (without starting the car) I can see the voltage of the battery with the car off via the RSM unit. But when I turn the key to "start engine" the APEXI RSM will go blank, refresh and then the display will only work after the engine has started.

Now with the Pivot/ground wire install I can go through this engine start process and the RSM stays on during starting!- ie I can actually see the information screen with the voltage information (fluctuating a lot!) as the car is starting. Could never do that before. So the capacitor is helping the RSM get the power it needs whilst the car is starting. So that is definately a benefit and a sign this thing helps starting. But I doubt it does anything once the car has started.

Apart from the above I can't notice any difference in the vehicle whatsoever.

damn LOL so these actually don't even work :o mayb we need to try the buddyclub condenser n see how they go?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BusterSonic12

damn LOL so these actually don't even work :o mayb we need to try the buddyclub condenser n see how they go?

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Same thing. It's the concept. That's why I didn't bother spending over $100 on it and just made my own cables from Jaycar for $6 per metre!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BusterSonic12

damn LOL so these actually don't even work :o mayb we need to try the buddyclub condenser n see how they go?

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I think it most likely is helping the car to start (see my post above re RSM now getting enough power when the car is starting) but once the car has started I personally don't think it helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yfin

I think it most likely is helping the car to start (see my post above re RSM now getting enough power when the car is starting) but once the car has started I personally don't think it helps.

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Yup, that's the reason why I did the grounding. It's only to help the car start. Once started, I can't tell any difference.

oh well. it adds to rice :P

Thanks for reporting back to us.I'll cross this off the to do list of mods.:(

all you need is diy a ground kit.
its been discussed before.
if you run a high current draining large stereo then all that is really needed is a larger battery ground to the chassis cable. leave the stock one but just add a tank one.

if this is not enough you can daisy chain to another pt.
this is what i do. ive got 4 grounding pts connected to a bus bar with 4GA cable.
and the very short gnd cable that goes straight to the chassis which is also daisy chain to a another point 10-15cm away.
at the rear the amp(s) grounding is daisy chained to 2 additional locations. ie 3 pts. this kind of thing may be needed when you ask an amp to suck up to 200a of current.


those pivot and raisin voltage stabiliser are TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY
some people may just think its bling with the blue led.

New cars generally don't need them, only the older cars...

For new cars, it only works only on like 80 plus % of vehicles and maybe you fall under the 20% percent that do not receive any benefits.. Might not have been effective on yours but maybe on other cars..

Why not you let me try on mine and see :D :D :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iced

all you need is diy a ground kit.
its been discussed before.
if you run a high current draining large stereo then all that is really needed is a larger battery ground to the chassis cable. leave the stock one but just add a tank one.

if this is not enough you can daisy chain to another pt.
this is what i do. ive got 4 grounding pts connected to a bus bar with 4GA cable.
and the very short gnd cable that goes straight to the chassis which is also daisy chain to a another point 10-15cm away.
at the rear the amp(s) grounding is daisy chained to 2 additional locations. ie 3 pts. this kind of thing may be needed when you ask an amp to suck up to 200a of current.


those pivot and raisin voltage stabiliser are TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY
some people may just think its bling with the blue led.

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You'd be having lots of ground loops in your setup.

And, you don't need that many grounds even if you had an amp that sucked 10,000 amps. LOL. All you need is one. The ground determines the 0V condition as cars use a floating ground.

Before everyone goes out and spends $110 on a grounding kit...... If you are still using the stock battery, please spend just $90-100 and get one with higher CCA. Your car will kick over quicker. A much better use of your money too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prusso

im going to have disagree with you
ive installed the buddy club voltage stabilizer
before installing
with headlights on, ac on, wipers on, and music up (2amps and large sound system) my voltage would drop below 11
after installing with all the above on and even putting my sunroof up and my windows down the voltage will not drop below 13..
my headlights dont dim at all and voltage is flat and constant
i strongly recommend spending $220 on the buddy club product, very easy to install and mount esp on a dc5!!!
thanks jdmyard for this product :)

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I would love to see the Buddy Club unit work on the CL9 and regulate voltage as you have suggested. I am just not game now to buy it given my experience with the Pivot.

Any trader out there want to back these products working on the CL9? (I'll send it back after I test it!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prusso

im going to have disagree with you
ive installed the buddy club voltage stabilizer
before installing
with headlights on, ac on, wipers on, and music up (2amps and large sound system) my voltage would drop below 11
after installing with all the above on and even putting my sunroof up and my windows down the voltage will not drop below 13..
my headlights dont dim at all and voltage is flat and constant
i strongly recommend spending $220 on the buddy club product, very easy to install and mount esp on a dc5!!!
thanks jdmyard for this product :)

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Sounds like your alternator's stuffed....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prusso

alternator is fine
installed at auto electrician and they tested it
the dc5 has very poor grounding cables

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Did the DC5R have the braided cables at the block and transmission case mounts? And how was the negative terminal to chassis cable? The one on the Euro is pretty good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prusso

ive got a base, so im not sure if they are the same wires
one cable to the trans case
none to the block
one to the base of the strut tower
and another one near the ecu

my car had alot of problems with the wires kept shorting out my amps on numerous occasions, everywhere suggested upgrading the cables and it worked for me

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Wow, none to the block and to the head? That's pretty bad as the gasket used between the transmission case and the block would have some insulating properties. No wonder the new ground cables helped you that much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

You'd be having lots of ground loops in your setup.

And, you don't need that many grounds even if you had an amp that sucked 10,000 amps. LOL. All you need is one. The ground determines the 0V condition as cars use a floating ground.

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at the moment my car is running an sq setup.
no ground loops. there is no audiable noise or interferance at all.
sorry to burst your bubble
A ground loop occurs when there is more than one ground connection path between two pieces of equipment.
this is not the case here so your claim about my setup in particular .

the under bonnet grounding has been use extensively by Marty at fhrxstudios utilising the alum bus bar.
as well the rear grounding reinforcement setup in his SQ demo car.

im very happy with my diy setup which has claimed me numerous trophys.

i can see why once you read what i said you though thats a a grounding loop for sure. but i assure you there is not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iced

at the moment my car is running an sq setup.
no ground loops. there is no audiable noise or interferance at all.
sorry to burst your bubble
A ground loop occurs when there is more than one ground connection path between two pieces of equipment.
this is not the case here so your claim about my setup in particular .

the under bonnet grounding has been use extensively by Marty at fhrxstudios utilising the alum bus bar.
as well the rear grounding reinforcement setup in his SQ demo car.

im very happy with my diy setup which has claimed me numerous trophys.

i can see why once you read what i said you though thats a a grounding loop for sure. but i assure you there is not.

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Ahh, I thought it might have a loop with your description of 3 ground points for your single amp at the rear. I guess it's difficult to visualise without a photo. :)

anyone know the main sensor ground location on a B series engine ?

I think this is the ground that Aaronng mentioned.
This is the pix from B16 engine
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8...nsortq1.th.jpg

But if we put ground cable there, won't there be ground loop? One from cable, one from engine ground.

This weekend im going to order (all genuine)
- Pivot Raizin Volt Stabilizer
- Pivot Spark Earth
- Pivot Ignition Earth
Fingers crossed that it will do something positive

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shimian

This weekend im going to order (all genuine)
- Pivot Raizin Volt Stabilizer
- Pivot Spark Earth
- Pivot Ignition Earth
Fingers crossed that it will do something positive

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It won't do much on an 06 Civic. :)
Your car will go faster because of your lighter wallet.

And that too :(
Been reading a singapore FD honda forum and a fair few people has installed these products. They claim that it works. I guess i got sucked in. Anyways, ill be the guinea pig since i dont see anyone on OZHonda with these items installed on an 06 Civic. Link me the thread if i missed them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shimian

And that too :(
Been reading a singapore FD honda forum and a fair few people has installed these products. They claim that it works. I guess i got sucked in. Anyways, ill be the guinea pig since i dont see anyone on OZHonda with these items installed on an 06 Civic. Link me the thread if i missed them

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They do look nice in the engine bay. If you are spending on it for the bling, it's all good :thumbsup: . Just don't expect breathtaking performance gains. :)

Im not expecting it to become a V6. People who has them installed mentioned things like: better torque at the lower rpm ranges, smoother delivery of torque thru the rpm ranges, reduction in kick-back in stop-go, slow traffic. Things like that. Only way to find out if what they said are true, is to test it out myself. Im only getting it cos these ppl installed it on an FD and found that it works. Anyways, it takes a few weeks to get it in so ill write up a review in a months time, hopefully it wont be my light wallet thats giving me the speed :p

man if it doesn't do what its supposed to send it back.

Tell them what you've told us and i'm sure they'll take it back. They have a reputation to hold up remember.

That 100 bucks could be better spent on other things.

ohhh.... - Pivot Spark Earth & Pivot Ignition Earth... anyone tried these on the euro?

Have installed a Pocket Hot InaZma by company call SUN in Japan recently in 07 Odyssey. Conclusion is better throttle response, smooth acceleration, better torque? (may be, but no data support that), hopefully will get better fuel comsumption. Eventhough my girl feels the car runs smoother due I told her that's a air ionizer at the beginning. Will install the grounding kits later to see any difference.

Will be installing my pivot products tomorrow. I have the raizin, spark earth and ignition earth. Just a few questions in regards to where to install them. I know there are instructions, but maybe there are suggestions to install them to better places. I was told by to install one of the raizin cables to the center part of the engine on the manifold side. This will produce the best result. Can someone confirm? Thats really all i have at the moment.

Raizin
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Ignition
1.
Spark
1.

If anyone can help, id appreciate it greatly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shimian

Will be installing my pivot products tomorrow. I have the raizin, spark earth and ignition earth. Just a few questions in regards to where to install them. I know there are instructions, but maybe there are suggestions to install them to better places. I was told by to install one of the raizin cables to the center part of the engine on the manifold side. This will produce the best result. Can someone confirm? Thats really all i have at the moment.

Raizin
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Ignition
1.
Spark
1.

If anyone can help, id appreciate it greatly.

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There are pictures in the packet as to suggested install points. I am surprised you purchased all 3 in the Pivot range for a new car. Let us know how you go.

Ok so far i have installed the spark earth and ignition earth. I have also installed the blue raizin but only the unit itself (positive and negative) and not the 5 other grounding cables bcos the rest is too difficult for me. I will have to get a mechanic to do it for me. Left the car for about 5-10 min idle after installation. My observations are as follows:
1. When i start my car, it seems to start a little quicker, but very minimal.
2. When i took off down the street, the rev goes up much much higher. I could get to 6,000revs with ease on an auto without flooring.
3. Havent really driven it for much, but the car is very quiet. I had the KN panel filter installed and that made the car a little bit quieter, but with the spark and ignition, it made it a little bit extra.
4. Car seems to drive a little smoother as you hit the speed limit.

I will be driving it for a bit more hopefully to get a better observation. Wont be able to review blue raizin until next week when i get it installed.

BTW, those who has blue raizin and spark earth, i noticed the LED on these units stay on after u turn ur car engine off. Does this eat away ur battery life? Sometimes i dont use my car for a week so will i expect a flat battery when i get back?

cheers

Nop it does not take up a lot of battery.... it onli takes up a really minimal amount of battery... will not affect the battery life... cuz i also got the pivot blue raizin n pivot spark earth in it.... as for the grounding cables.. its really easy to be done.. just follow the instruction n u'll be fine with it....

Cheers

Sweet, cos this week i wont be driving my car til the weekend. Fingers crossed that it will still start. As for the pivot blue raizin, even thou the instructions r there, its too hard for me cos i dont know how to undo parts to get to the firewall and other points of the vehicle. will let a mech do that for me. So far, overall i find the car much quieter and smoother. In terms of performance gains i cant really tell, but it seems to be able to go up a hill a lot easier. Hopefully the raizin will give it a boost

can u post some photos up with the other pivot?

ill post up some pics when i get the raizin done. ill probably also get them to tidy up my poor workmanship for the spark and ignition earth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by claymore

Found an article by a car mag testing grounds and voltage stabilizers they come to the same conclusion ....... no benefits
From Tprmag.com (Tuning performance report)

http://www.tprmag.com/issue/8/8_elec_stab.shtml

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Maybe they work better on older model cars.

maybe random wires just running everywhere but nowhere not storing any power what so ever do nothing....................

This stuff is just bling! Doesn't do much tho.. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tony1234

Maybe they work better on older model cars.

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The standard grounding system works fine. On an older car the ground wires may be slightly corroded but that is easily fixed.

No need for these imo.

Quote:

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Im not expecting it to become a V6. People who has them installed mentioned things like: better torque at the lower rpm ranges, smoother delivery of torque thru the rpm ranges, reduction in kick-back in stop-go, slow traffic. Things like that. Only way to find out if what they said are true, is to test it out myself. Im only getting it cos these ppl installed it on an FD and found that it works. Anyways, it takes a few weeks to get it in so ill write up a review in a months time, hopefully it wont be my light wallet thats giving me the speed

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i drive a 94 dc2 vtir and i noticed the same thing after installing the pivot raizin with the ground cables to the pivot suggested spots (the alternator was a little troublesome though)

a lot smoother down low, cleaner starts, smoother idle, i got exactly what i wanted, i didn't expect huge gains, just a light icing on the cake, and it looks good too =)

i hate placebo =/