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I was the firstQuote:
Originally Posted by 0098
I got my fixed at blue print Smash repairs... Next door to whiteline.;)
they paid $500 ... total cost was $1200
good job with perfect alignments
whitelined paid 500? or who
$1200.... What exactly had to be done?
Take out the existing subframe and weld in a whole new one (I would imagine). Pretty major job! Goodluck getting it all sorted.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0098
subframe ~2-300 from honda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdster
Drop fuel tank, drill out spot welds,
align new subframe and respot weld..
then a coat of deadening..
i think
this is a scarily common problem...it has happened on about 15 peoples cars including mine that i can think of....
Guys , please contact whiteline direct http://www.whiteline.com.au/ OR
Please , in the meantime avoid whiteline products UNTIL they have rectified their "build" issues.Quote:
PHONE:
(02) 9603 0111
1800 040 003 (toll free)
int+ 61 2 9603 0111 (international)
thanks fellas.
blitz how severe was your damage?
i think you can fit the ASR brace on with the whiteline with some new brackets? that should stop the problem i would think...i hope anyways cos i will be running whiteline
yeh
but thats really not the point man..
getting cranky and being rude is never the best way to get what you want.
thats being polite
luckily for this forum im not being rude or angry even though i have every right to seeing that they specialise in what they do yet have designed,sold and profited from something that tears subframes.. seriously ripping a chunk out of subframes is not a small thing.
the whiteline sway u hv, does it comes with no reinforcement? or the old reinforcement? or the new type of reinforcement?
Both left and right tabs were mashedQuote:
Originally Posted by 0098
honest to say i have been there and done that...
I even wrote a whole comparison b/w whiteline beaks and ASR.
Just most noobs did not read it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...c/2e7ab0da.jpg
Mate,he's just had the guts ripped out of his car:eek: This comment is only going to infuriate him more :thumbsup:.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_will
Think b4 you post dumb s**t like this!
Whiteline sell a faulty product.This has been prooved time and time again.He is due full compensation and an apology.
Whiteline should remove the product of the market PERIOD! This is a joke!
It's frustrating to see this continuing to happen.Why haven't Whiteline taken this product off the shelves?????
It has been taken off the shelf about 3-6months ago replaced with a reinforcement plate... even then the plate is shit compared to ASR ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by beeza
eventhough my case happened years ago
It really hurts and I can understand the OP feelings.
If Whiteline were truely concerned the least they should do is put a warning on their website or to show true commitment to their customers offer a free upgrade (although as Blitz said the ASR product is still superior).
It was a very good read and I highly suggest people look for it and read it!Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitZ
Did both tabs end up ripping? Did they end up separating from the subframe completly?
Yeah exactly.They are only blackening thier name by keeping the old product out thier.I'm sure we will see more of these threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdster
Then,I guess they will have to change thier name :o
Ideally what they should do is make an announcement on their website or somewhere telling people who are using their old faulty product to come to whiteline for a free upgrade. Just like other companys recall faulty products.
That would prevent even more people get a torn subframe and show they care about their customers.
I just dont get how people can sell things like this, its like they bent a metal bar , hooked it up to a test car, drove around the block and then released it onto the market...seriously
I feel ya pain man.And everybody else who has gone through it too.
whiteline import their bars and most items from overseas , i doubt anything is actually made in OZ. They have released a version 2 for EK's only - but that leaves the EG/DCs too. ITs still a flawed design , they left out the fundamental reason the old kit has problems.
They dont have a rear plate to link the mounting plate. the ASR and BEAKS kit does , and it provides a solid mounting point on your subframe - not 2 or 3 20c piece sized points , which must support the entire swaybar AND its movements. TAKE NOTE. :thumbdwn:
Ah I see,it's a team of monkeys that designs them.
I think I will just go and bash my head against a wall.Same result.
If you read 0098's post,Quote:
Originally Posted by beeza
. It was put onto his car by the previous owner that owned the car. I bet he was happy when he purchased the car that he was getting a whiteline bar included in the price. ;) I won't think Whiteline is obligated in any way to cover 0098's repair bill. If the previous owner who purchased the bar was complaining, then yes, Whiteline has some obligation.Quote:
he didn't even buy the whiteline sway bar
I wonder if 0098 installed a reinforcement kit like all EK owners are advised to if they have an upgraded rear sway bar. http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...=torn+subframe
And it's not 100% whiteline's fault. Even Accord Euros have the problem with the rear subframe bracket tearing if we use a swaybar thicker than 22mm with poly bushings and thicker endlinks.
beeza , as mentioned above the user 0098 isnt due compensation of any kind. IF whiteline agrees to any sort of compensation its in their moral grounding , not legal or technical.
FYI aarong and everyone , the "kit" for this example is the tried and tested 20/22mm swaybar kit with "mounting". There is no simple swaybar addition.
Other companies ( BEAKS for example) have had problems with their kits and rectified quite quickly. But whitelines "version 2 " kit is still not at the same league of its competition ( ASR / BEAKS).
Best of luck 0098 and contact whiteline direct as mentioned by me eariler
Quote:
Guys , please contact whiteline direct http://www.whiteline.com.au/ OR
Quote:
PHONE:
(02) 9603 0111
1800 040 003 (toll free)
int+ 61 2 9603 0111 (international)
Please , in the meantime avoid whiteline products UNTIL they have rectified their "build" issues.
It is purely their products fault, if i purchased the thing or not isnt really the point. It isnt their obligation to give me a refund ofcourse not but they should be held accountable and take responsibility, just like if i purchase a house and the washing machine that i didnt buy but was already there catches on fire and burns my house down i think dishlex or whoever would get some blame.
Saw some people today about getting it fixed, they all said it is a shit design and the supporting brackets are not good enought etc..
Im over it and its better i dont see anyone from whiteline because i know whoever deals with me is just a worker and they shouldnt cop abuse.. If it was the owner of whiteline then that would be a different story:kiss2:
Whiteline always looked cheap and dodgy to me and in the end i was right.
Love yas all
whiteline:thumbdwn:
gettin freakay with the owner for some compo aye :PQuote:
Originally Posted by 0098
I agree they dont have to do anything, but the bar caused the fault and this in my opinion place moral issues on Whiteline.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
I disagree. They are selling a product that they know may cause problems. At a minimum they should have big bold warnings on the bars/boxes/instructions that say there is a potential issue with installing larger swaybars and that the owner is taking some risk installing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
If you purchased a rear sway bar for the EK from another brand that did not have a suitable reinforcement kit, you would also get the same subframe tearing. The difference is that other brands have rectified the problem by including good bracing. Whiteline hasn't and I am agreeing with you that their product is inferior. What I am disagreeing with is that a car's chassis is designed with OEM parts in mind. When you use upgraded/stiffer parts, you place additional stresses that can overwhelm the material/thickness that the chassis is made out of. When you purchase an aftermarket higher-specced product or a car with such a part, this is the risk that you choose to take.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdster
Beaks is pretty shit dude.. i would think it would be only on par with the Whitline V2 (the latest one)Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
ITs either comptech or ASR.
The Comptech 22mm rear sway bar either breaks the endlinks or tears the mount off the subframe on the Accord Euros. There is also a Progress 22mm bar, and that doesn't cause the same problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
We are talkin about EK here:thumbsup:
they use OEM endlinks and is almost exactly the same as ASR (EK) from memory
I know, but I am saying you can't generalise whether a brand is good or bad. If they have a product that exceeds the limits of the chassis, you will get damage if there is no bracing in the product, doesn't matter if it is a good or shit brand.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitZ
Comes down to where or not they have a duty of care towards you. As you did not purchase the product from them, they only have a contract with the original owner. You would have to get compensation from the prior owner and then they would have to get compensation from whiteline. Whiteline would not have any obligations to a 3rd party who was not privvy to the original purchase.
I know its tough but that's how things are. Suing the original owner will be hard as they do not have any obligations of warranty toward you also. Just rem. 'buyer beware'. Know what you are buying before you buy it.
Just rem folks if your gonna run the whiteline bar, i would recommend and ASR brace, at worse use the beaks kit. I've tried with and without and it wouldn't use another whiteline bar now without the ASR brace.
its all about the dishlex theory
just pulled out ANOTHER broken whiteline swaybar mounting kit off a EK.
The lower bolt mount snapped clean off - was torqued correctly and installed correctly by myself 6 months prior.
Ill let the user post this imagery up if he wishes.
does it tear by normal driving, eg daily
or taken pretty hard every now n then?
or it jus rips either way? (standard whiteline kit)
Daily driving from what I have heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwillz
why don't people just use OEM ek4 swaybars? too hard to find possibly?
i was wondering, im not sure if this has been already said, but do you have the thicker front swaybar installed as well?? I think this helped for my car (eg taking some load off the rear thru corners). Yet to have a tearing frame. *fingers crossed lol*
hey willz!Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwillz
my suspension is still fine, I think iv tested it pretty hard. didnt even damage when i jumped into ditch =]. only the front came a tad loose. And one of the rear arms has a tiny dint from landing to one side.
This may have been answered already but, if the whiteline swaybar is mounted right with the correct whiteline mounting brackets as well as the whiteline tie bar, will it be ok or is there a chance of it ripping still, even with the correct fittings and tie bar.
Or is it only a risk when it is just the swaybar.
I have the whiteline 22mm sway + tie combo on my car and have had it for about 2 years now and no problems. I took it to the track for the first time a month ago and am planning on tracking more often so yeah. Should i be worried even with the tie bar?????
Its proven to "tear out" regardless of setup.
Either with optional tiebar , or without - the common setup is the 20/22mm adjustable swaybar to tear out either side of the subframe. This is because of the extra stress on its mounting points on the subframe. IF the mounting was spread out (same as ASR kit etc) then there would be much less likely an issue.
But , as it stands - all older and the new current whiteline "heavy duty" mounting kits that suit EG/DC and EK's are flawed and i personally would avoid them.
*edit
My car has had both for i think 5+ years with correct fittings and brackets, my has been tracked once about 4 years ago and the tear has just happened recently while i have owned the car , and ive only driven on public roads so ive done no crazy turns etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by DNYALL
Id hate to think what can potentially happen to a car that is tracked every now and again. I wouldnt risk it, maybe get an asr brace if people can vouch that they definately work.
Does that mean if you get a different brand who's design is not flawed but still didn't get the ASR bracing kit, the subframe wouldn't tear?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Not the swaybars themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
The issue with whiteline kits is the mounting kits. They lack sufficient bracing and also put too much pressure/force on too little space so its simply a matter of time until any design swaybar plucks a hole out of your subframe ( applicable to EG/DC and EK's)
Those of you with an EG, who are using the thick Whiteline rear sway bars, do you use these with the heavy duty mounting kit in conjunction with a Tie Bar and still experience tearing?
Frankly, I've tracked a couple of times with the Whiteline kits and its been alright, but anyway, I've moved to a thinner sway bar to resolve some handling problems.
Are all the whiteline swaybars faulty I just installed one on my CD5 accord.
Quote:
Originally Posted by e240
the tiebar doesnt make a difference - From the amount of "subframe tear" ive seen , only 1 had no tiebar and the others had the tiebar.
Guys , the problem with this design is this - a basic description.
http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/...dium/rough.jpg
The same amount of force is applied to the overall RED areas shown above. The difference is , the whiteline has a much more concentrated force applied to those 3 smaller holes while the ASR brace spreads the load upon a greater plane. Hence , it is a better and safer product.
Please , if anyone can add or correct me upon these issues feel free. But this is a basic description and fact :)
here is my own account and fair share of whiteline's product and it's quality:
whiteline sway bar + tie bar has been great when i put it on about a year ago after much trouble installing it (you can all ask benjaminn as i need to find stronger bolt then the original supplied 6 hardness bolt from whiteline).. i can' vouch them more, they had greatly improve my handling and i had my share of wakies experience for been the first auto civic to attend on ozhonda time day (not the best result but hey i've a go:D).. however about a week ago, i had suddenly heard alot of noice from the back of my car.. i though it's one of my suspension is in need of exchange but to my surpise here is what i find:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7...0208ep7.th.jpg
the left brack had basiclly snap off..
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4...0209fl6.th.jpg
here is a closed up pic of the bracket snap off
lucky that my LCA mount did not break. the bolt however disappeared
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8...0204vo6.th.jpg
another interesting thing is..this little errrrr...where the bolt goes are so poorly point weld that it snap off in this instance:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7...0210nt7.th.jpg
disappointment... i miss the strong and confidence when i turn corner at high speed but when i thing about what might happen to my car if my mount are snap and....yea you get the picture..
i am not trying to stir anything bad about the whiteline product.. i have numerous occations dealt with them (Wojtek from whiteline - his a nice guy but weird at times) and my front camber kit they provide are exceptional in quality...and exceptional hard to adjust hahaha
but letting you guys know what happen to mine and whether it's good or bad.. it's up to you to decide..
Another interesting fact is that this company use(d) lower rated tensile bolts than OEM spec - but is under higher working loads than OEM spec. (thicker swabar than OEM = more load correct?)
To be fair
Quote -
"that may have been the case some time ago, so it seems that we are stuck with this legacy. For the record, we now use high quality high tensile bolts, minimum Gr8.8, and up to Gr12.8 for the lower control arm bolts"
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...t=62204&page=5
Lets try and keep this thread factual...Quote:
Originally Posted by thebob
True that - lets reply with experiences and facts rather than a simple " this is crap or shite" guys.
This thread is about Whiteline , more exactly the quality and design of its mounting kits for aftermarket swaybars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Good description Ben. Something else to add is that the reinforcement at the back of the subframe is significantly less on the Whiteline kit than the ASR kit.
I think something very important to note here - in terms of driving feel both the whiteline kit and the ASR kit feel almost identical. For ek1 owners they are a huge upgrade from having no rear sway - as such handling is greatly improved. The Whiteline kit cant be faulted for improving handling. The issue is purely with the construction and design of the kit IMO.
So the problem with Whiteline here is not the swaybar, but the substandard reinforcement kit, right?
As far as I understand it, yes. I have yet to have seen the bar itself actually break.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
I don't understand why people don't just get the ASR reinforcement kit and use that with the whiteline swaybar.
I got a feeling ti doesnt fit as the whiteline bar mounts further out.. could be wrong.. but someone actually tried it but had to use the whiteline ears, which defeated 0.5 of the ASR purpose...Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Else you can do a DIY.. i did... DIY ASR... eheheheh $50:thumbsup:
well nothing wrong with the bar; just a stick.. its the way its mounted to the car which is the issueQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Apparently it does fit. The other better/easier option is just to get an oem bar (like an itr/ctr) and use the ASR kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
how much do itr sway bars go for these days? without the endlinks
Yeah the Bar an dthe endlinks are fine. Its the mounting brackets and th bolts supplied that are of very bad quality. One of you brackets snapped only got held together with the bolt which i originally used better bolts instead of the whiteline ones. Lucky i was installing the ASR at the same time to notice the piece. i have discarded the brackets since the ASR has the brackets for it.
wel guys i just checked mine then and it has cracked :eek: sooo shit. I had it mounted properly and with the tie bar. Damn, time to call whiteline and give em heaps. :thumbdwn:
Does anyone know somewhere in Victoria that will fix it?
Ouch! Another one...
Sending you a PM Mike.Quote:
Originally Posted by DNYALL
is it only the 22mm bar that is cracking the subframe?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNYALL
WTF are you serious ?
Get all the photos you can of the bar / mounting , and all receipts etc of the kit. Everyone who has had this happen deserves to be compensated in some way or form - it isnt coincidence.
Read this thread , and you will realise its not relevant to the swaybar size. Its the "HEAVY DUTY MOUNTING KITS" that whiteline has for the EK / EG and DC series. They are weak and questionable mounting.Quote:
is it only the 22mm bar that is cracking the subframe?
Refer to my post - http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpos...8&postcount=50
I agree. Whiteline should really be stepping up to the plate and recalling this product/paying for damaged cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Yeah just got off the phone with the guy at Whiteline, i gotta email in photos of the damage and receits and then they will asses it from there apparently.
when you do that.. you can email my picture too..haha
sht, can't find my receit...
do you know of any civic with an 18mm bar that has cracked the subframe?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
I would be the same.I try to keep important ones but they always seem to get missplaced :(Quote:
Originally Posted by DNYALL
mine. (2nd honda civic)Quote:
Originally Posted by ekhybrid
The 18mm swaybar uses the OEM mounts - this sheared thru the mounts and plucked the hole out of the subframe.
Old news..
here are some pics:
The right side is really bad!!
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6...kright4fl7.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9...kright1cr1.jpg
The left is also cracked but no where near as bad:
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8041/backleftsz5.jpg
was this on an ek1 or ek4? does the ek4 have a stronger sub frame since it has 18mm swaybar stock?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Ben's was an eg (if I am not mistaken).Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
correct as above - i had a EG hatch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
FYI the whiteline kit seems to tear out the same EK4 AND EK1's.
This issue is the heavy duty mounting.