NOOB questions about riding/ dumping the clutch

[Lukey]

You know when you downshift and the car jerks abit???

I just let it out slowly and it doesnt jerk at all . Probly wearing my clutch a fair bit though lol.

[andiiso]

when downshifting and letting clutch off while pulling up to a stop, as long as u are matching ur downshiftin wid ur km/h well then it wont jerk, say if im going 80 and i downshift from 5th to 4th at the same time applyin my brake till the km/h drops to about 60 (also meaning the revs drop lower) itll be smooth (i dun mean releasing clutch straight away, but with pratice u could release clutch faster overtime, slow at start mayb a bit of riding) cos there is less rev to recover from when u first put the clutch in (0 rev to like 4k rev compared to 0 rev to like 2-3k rev) and im not talkin about any toe heel blips either, just normal. Another way of saying it is like, driving at 80km/h put clutch in and just put to 4th and let go of clutch without braking or matchin up km/h itll jerk since the rev from 0 when u first put clutch in had to recover all the way to like 3-4 where its almost power time lolz.

Downshifting (to a stop) = timing between braking and clutch release (normal driving no toe heel etc)

Upshifting - timing between accelerating and clutch release (like rev matching but ur just revving the accel from 0 to wat it WOULD be on the nex gear UP and also matching throttle, no blip, just a constant accel to wat it would be and keep going), but careful if u rev too much and still on the clutch at friction point then BURN !) different on every car of course.

blip = a tap on the throttle.

if pplz here are wondering wtf im on about, its hard to explain lolz, but to show someone much easier haha so yea i tried but hopefully someone noe wat im on about and mayb can explain it better.

thanks
andiiso

[dsp26]

^^^makes sense. 2 factors cahnge the way the above is done though:
- Lightweight flywheel
- Clutch type (button, sprung, etc)

[andiiso]

yea lightweight flywheel will actually be easier for the smoothness since no matter how light or heavy the rev will drop to 0 when ur shiftin or atleast close and with the lightened flywheel revving bak up quicker, itll recover quicker so .. all ur reactions n response will havta be quicker ! lolz .. i think ?.. and yer the clutch type changes the whole concept lolz .. but most my theory just on the stock clutch n flywheel ..

but but but, im driving stock atm, only ever drove a lightened flywheel and HD clutch once and thats no where near enuff to experiment and trial and error etc to get the smooth driving. Gotta learn to walk bfore learning to run, so gettin ur NORMAL everyday driving smooth etc is a step to get up there before starting to do all that racing etc.
The lightened flywheel thing may not be exactly correct in this post Since my car is stock

[AzKik-R]

Avoid both lol

Riding the clutch wears the clutch down too fast, you dont wanna be up for a $600 bill only after 50,000km of clutch life

Dumping the clutch puts enormous stress on the transmission, risking blowing the poor bearings amongst other parts.

Yes, but I think the car in question would be a Honda, in particular a front wheel drive honda, and the gear box is well suited for the application, any excess power would go straight to the wheels, if the car was say a 1995ish 0suby or worse yet a gti-r then absolutely do not dump the clutch

[T-onedc2]

yeah chicken8's avatar

Heel Toe

[NAY]

Yes, but I think the car in question would be a Honda, in particular a front wheel drive honda, and the gear box is well suited for the application, any excess power would go straight to the wheels, if the car was say a 1995ish 0suby or worse yet a gti-r then absolutely do not dump the clutch

I dont know how bad gti-rs are. My brother has had his for 4 years or so, still on his first gearbox. That includes a few 12 second runs at the drags, launching off the limiter! It spins all 4 (or 3, open front diff) which probably the saviour for the box. If it had more power (pretty stock) or more grip i dont think the box would survive too much longer.


Riding the clutch can be useful at the drags, but its not good for clutch life. I had a fairly modded tx5 turbo once upon at time, the way you got a best 1/4 time out of it was to ride the clutch through first, keeping the revs at about 4500rpm until the car speed got up and the thing would hook up (even then 2nd was probably break into wheelspin anyway).


As for blipping the throttle/heel toe. It has its purposes. Often you will find on a tight track situation you may need first gear. A lot of cars can be difficult to get back into first on the roll short of just forcing them, this is where the double declutch may come in handy. Another example, I did a skid pan day in my r33, one of the track setups you really needed to go back to first. Just about the only way I could get it to go 1st to 2nd at about 30-40km/h was to blip the throttle and try and rev match. Other wise you will sit there pushing the gearstick and it would take a bloody long time to happen.

So there, a bunch of anecdotal evidence. Probably not really useful but anyway.

[dsp26]

^^ 12sec passes isn't "pretty stock"... stock is low-mid 14s lol.

agreed with your 3rd paragraph about heel toe for 1st gear. have a +rep for that paragraph :P

[Limbo]

Lighter flywheels are harder to match as when the clutch grabs it stops the flywheel quicker due to its lighter force. Also it speeds up quicker so you have less margin of play. So you need to rev higher to engage and mix better. Same can be said for coming out of first.

yea lightweight flywheel will actually be easier for the smoothness since no matter how light or heavy the rev will drop to 0 when ur shiftin or atleast close and with the lightened flywheel revving bak up quicker, itll recover quicker so .. all ur reactions n response will havta be quicker ! lolz .. i think ?.. and yer the clutch type changes the whole concept lolz .. but most my theory just on the stock clutch n flywheel ..

but but but, im driving stock atm, only ever drove a lightened flywheel and HD clutch once and thats no where near enuff to experiment and trial and error etc to get the smooth driving. Gotta learn to walk bfore learning to run, so gettin ur NORMAL everyday driving smooth etc is a step to get up there before starting to do all that racing etc.
The lightened flywheel thing may not be exactly correct in this post Since my car is stock

[andiiso]

Lighter flywheels are harder to match as when the clutch grabs it stops the flywheel quicker due to its lighter force. Also it speeds up quicker so you have less margin of play. So you need to rev higher to engage and mix better. Same can be said for coming out of first.

ahkz fair enuff, ill experience it when i get to it, and about the first gear thing .. i have alwayz thought that You should never go into first gear while the car is moving (unless at a verii verii slow speed) even if rev matching is applied perfectly, i dont exactly know y you shouldnt in technical terms but in my mind it just seems to be categorized in "bad" lolz.

[Shraka]

ahkz fair enuff, ill experience it when i get to it, and about the first gear thing .. i have alwayz thought that You should never go into first gear while the car is moving (unless at a verii verii slow speed) even if rev matching is applied perfectly, i dont exactly know y you shouldnt in technical terms but in my mind it just seems to be categorized in "bad" lolz.

Because first gear is quite a bit shorter than the rest of your gears. The difference in ratio can make it quite hard to get down from 2nd into first. Doing it a lot wears out the syncro. So I hear anyway.

The reason to get into first from second is if you hit a 1st gear corner, and need the extra power on the exit. Come into the corner hard under brakes, once your speed drop below the redline of 1st gear, swap out for first and take the corner in first gear.

Double clutching makes it way easier to get into first from second, or down any gear when you're rolling, especially when you're at higher revs. My car will not go into first AT ALL when above 5000rpm unless I double clutch.

Heel-toe'ing is just double clutching while half your right foot is on the brake in order to slow down quickly.

[andiiso]

i know about the heel toe n all, but even when perfect matching on the heel toe it just doesnt seem like a great idea haha. I agree with you, heel toeing/ double clutching/ rev matching makes it much easier to downgear and much smoother if done with exact rev match.