We just may get the JDM CTR in Australia.

[MKI4EVA]

wow do you think that the R's product is that labour intensive?

don't they just come off a production line with all the bits bolted on and 1 R formula for that production line?

Part of the reason why the FD2R is quick and responsive is because of the team of dedicated Type R engineers working on it. They probably are the same guys who used to hand refine the DC5R, NSX and S2000 engines. If they were to make it in Thailand, they would need to send their engineers over to Thailand for long term if they wanted to keep the quality of the FD2R's mechanical parts up. Remember, it is not only the chassis strengthening of the FD2R that is different from the normal FD2. The engine has critical hand-tuned parts that require an experienced engineer to work on. They can't replace experience with machinery or cheaper fresh labour.

[aaronng]

wow do you think that the R's product is that labour intensive?

don't they just come off a production line with all the bits bolted on and 1 R formula for that production line?

I wish it was that easy. Then they could produce the FD2R at a quicker rate and meet the demand.

This is what goes into the engine alone: http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/FD2K20AR/index.html

[fasthonda]

wow do you think that the R's product is that labour intensive?

don't they just come off a production line with all the bits bolted on and 1 R formula for that production line?

I just wonder if the turbo charged engines from eg Golf GTI,Megane Sport,XR5 etc go through as many processes as a Type R engine from a FD2R ,maybe taking the turbo route by some manufacturers is an easier and cheaper option?
Someone with more indepth knowledge about engines maybe could answer.

[aaronng]

I just wonder if the turbo charged engines from eg Golf GTI,Megane Sport,XR5 etc go through as many processes as a Type R engine from a FD2R ,maybe taking the turbo route by some manufacturers is an easier and cheaper option?
Someone with more indepth knowledge about engines maybe could answer.

It depends on the engine. Most engines are well built that they can take forced induction without many changes. But the engine in the GTI, Megane Sport and XR5 are designed from the ground up to be turbo engines. Of course, they would have balancing and everything, but the tolerances would not have to be as tight as that in a high-revving NA engine. Also, an NA engine is more sensitive to tuning methods such as balancing, lightening, polishing and ITB. Unfortunately, those are the more expensive types of tuning to do on an engine. For any engine, the amount of positive pressure supplied in the intake charge produces the most gains. Doing the same balancing, lightening and polishing would cost more for less power as compared to just designing the engine to be tougher in the first place and using forced induction. So when you look at both engines, the design and manufacturing cost is similar, but NA engines are more labour intensive to produce.

[slipangle]

To concur with aaron's comments. I went on the Porsche factory tour when they were assembling the Mk2 GT3's engine at the Stuttgart factory and they describe how much more labour intensive it is to produce the factory "specials". There was a separate section requiring dedicated "meisters" who would hand assemble, balance etc those engines that could not be done in the conventional production line.

In no way am I suggesting that Honda affords a similar proportion of their production budget in assembling Type R, but I would not be surprised at all if the costs to produce these cars are a LOT more than a standard Civic due to not being able to exploit economies of scale as a result of the customisation and specialist labour required to create the hardware that goes in to these cars. In that respect, paying $10-$15K more than a mainstream item is not an unreasonable ask. If anything, I suspect these cars make less profit for Honda as a product but is compensated for in the branding and awareness exposure.

[aaronng]

Yes, the additional cost just to make an FD2R engine alone compared to a normal 147kW K20A would be similar to taking your k20a to a workshop and having it blueprinted, having I/H/E bolted on and reflashing your ECU. Even the header looks better than a Maximworks header, so don't use Xforce prices to calculate that. Calculate the cost and adjust for the cost of labour in Japan and you get a rough idea for the extra cost of the Type R engine.

Now, on to the chassis welding, bracing, suspension, bump/stroke sensors, dampers, springs, calipers, rotors, rims and tyres. $$$$$

[BlitZ]

Yes, the additional cost just to make an FD2R engine alone compared to a normal 147kW K20A would be similar to taking your k20a to a workshop and having it blueprinted, having I/H/E bolted on and reflashing your ECU. Even the header looks better than a Maximworks header, so don't use Xforce prices to calculate that. Calculate the cost and adjust for the cost of labour in Japan and you get a rough idea for the extra cost of the Type R engine.

Now, on to the chassis welding, bracing, suspension, bump/stroke sensors, dampers, springs, calipers, rotors, rims and tyres. $$$$$

have u got pictures of the headers? can i see them, i am very interested..

[aaronng]

have u got pictures of the headers? can i see them, i am very interested..

Here a screencap from Best Motoring:



And here's the translated info on the headers from Honda Japan's website:
http://translate.google.com/translat...%3Den%26sa%3DG

[slipangle]

came across this vid on what I assume was an FD2R press day at Suzuka. It's in Japanese, so don't really understand what he is saying (the only words I recognise are "fun" and "fast").

Interesting shot of the tyre's tread pattern and how widely the pattern (and compound?) varies across it's width.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycJUTiVOqjw

[aaronng]

came across this vid on what I assume was an FD2R press day at Suzuka. It's in Japanese, so don't really understand what he is saying (the only words I recognise are "fun" and "fast").

Interesting shot of the tyre's tread pattern and how widely the pattern (and compound?) varies across it's width.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycJUTiVOqjw

They are just RE070s.



The new RE001 Adrenalins also vary the pattern across the width. It's how asymmetric tyres are designed.

[slipangle]

yeah, on the vid, where the tyre was shown without the show shine/releasing agent(?) all over it, there is a clear difference in the tone of the rubber on the outer, less treaded edge as opposed to the middle and inner sections.

[aaronng]

yeah, on the vid, where the tyre was shown without the show shine/releasing agent(?) all over it, there is a clear difference in the tone of the rubber on the outer, less treaded edge as opposed to the middle and inner sections.

I think it's because of the increased tyre wear on the outer edges when you corner hard on the track.

They are still nothing special though. They are OEM tyres on the WRX STI since 2004.