Shifting down into 1st problem...

[B18cEG]

still reread what you quoted and tell us if it makes sense. from what i can see, you're still telling him to force it into first, only double clutch when you're in first (bunny hop anyone?)

just avoid using first altogether, 2nd is fine for times when you cant get into 1st. just ride the clutch a little more.

no im saying hold it at first ready to put it in (for quicker operation)

[cvc88]

You just have very bad english there B18cEG...

My advice, when slowing down to a taffic light... down gear to 3rd, then 2nd.. and when its slow enuf.. neutral??.... and when u have to stop then STOP..

if not.. and the car is still rolling, dont matter what speed it is.. as long its less than 30km/hr go back into 2nd gear and GO... easy! Thats how i drive.. take advantage of neutral =]

[twing]

you have not described double clutching. you have described the official 'lets make our gearboxes shit themselves' method.

to double clutch:

depress clutch
shift to neutral
release clutch
rev appropriately to match input shaft speed
depress clutch
select lower gear
release cluch.

I didn't try to explain double clutching. What I described was the rev matching during heel toe-ing, which is:
clutch in
change to lower gear
rev properly
clutch out
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving..._heeltoe.shtml
Rev matching is good for clutch.
Double clutching is good for clutch AND syncro.
When I have time to do it, I will double clutch... but most of the time rev match.


Another good reading related to this topic:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/arch.../t-233705.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=804223

[steve88]

you guys rev when dropping gears?!

[aaronng]

Revmatch when you downshift. If you want to get into first, you need to double clutch. Even on a new car with good synchros, you get a pretty loud bang sound when you put it into 1st from 10-15km/h.

[SeverAMV]

I didn't try to explain double clutching. What I described was the rev matching during heel toe-ing, which is:
clutch in
change to lower gear
rev properly
clutch out
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving..._heeltoe.shtml
Rev matching is good for clutch.
Double clutching is good for clutch AND syncro.
When I have time to do it, I will double clutch... but most of the time rev match.


Another good reading related to this topic:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/arch.../t-233705.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=804223

isnt the wear thing reversed?
rev matching is bad for clutch and good for synchro as your clutch is engaged fully when you blip the throttle. double clutching is good for both as your clutch isnt engaged fully when you're blipping the throttle?
i try to heel toe rather than double clutch, i havent practiced double clutch much so im a bit slow at it compared to heel toe.

[aaronng]

isnt the wear thing reversed?
rev matching is bad for clutch and good for synchro as your clutch is engaged fully when you blip the throttle. double clutching is good for both as your clutch isnt engaged fully when you're blipping the throttle?
i try to heel toe rather than double clutch, i havent practiced double clutch much so im a bit slow at it compared to heel toe.

No, rev match is good for clutch. Clutch wear occurs when you are in the process of pressing down or releasing the clutch, not when it is fully released or fully pressed down (unless you have a master/slave cylinder problem). Rev match while pressing the clutch down doesn't do anything for your synchros.

Double clutching is done with the clutch fully released. All it is is a rev match done in neutral with the clutch released just before you shift into 1st. With double clutch, you can get into 1st even when moving at 50km/h and it goes in smoothly without fuss or noise.

[steve88]

Revmatch when you downshift. If you want to get into first, you need to double clutch. Even on a new car with good synchros, you get a pretty loud bang sound when you put it into 1st from 10-15km/h.

oh i know about the 1st gear problem, but i never revmatch when going lets say 4th gear to 2nd gear (usually done when slowing down at traffic lights or at round about). i just clutch in and drop gear, and i do it pretty slowly not snap.

[twing]

oh i know about the 1st gear problem, but i never revmatch when going lets say 4th gear to 2nd gear (usually done when slowing down at traffic lights or at round about). i just clutch in and drop gear, and i do it pretty slowly not snap.

Say you are in 50kmh 4th gear, your rpm will be around 2000 rpm.
When you drop to 2nd gear, your rpm will jump to 3500 rpm. You will get a big jerk because the flywheel (or engine speed) needs to accomodate the faster gear speed. It's bad for the drive train (both clutch and syncro).

So, to make your drivetrain happier you could do either double clutch or rev match... or just slow down from 50 kmh to 20 kmh before changing the gear.

You mentioned about being pretty slow... i hope when you releasing the clutch, it's not like 2-3 seconds slow.
The slower you are, the more time spent on the clutch friction point and the faster the clutch wears off. So releasing the clutch should take less than a second.

[steve88]

nah it takes about 1.5 seconds slow. i think by slow i mean i release softly

and i just realised that when at lights i actually do wait for my speed too drop, i dont just go 50km/h then bam too 2nd gear, i usually put clutch in second and let my car roll until it hits about 20-30km/h

[bennjamin]

Summary is DONT put back into 1st until STOPPED

[dc2dc2dc2]

i thought that was common sense.