Shifting down into 1st problem...

**steve88** · 03-09-2007 05:12 PM

yeh i know youd fail your Ps if you do it :S

**nd55** · 03-09-2007 10:41 PM

[ Warning: Internet mechanic in the area. ]

Just wanted to post a few views and get feedback on this.

1) "Mista Bone" on www-d-series.org says he's never seen a synchro worn enough to warrant the term 'worn out'. They do wear, but have a very significant life span.

He also points out that he habitually roughs up (with sandpaper) synchro rings during a tranny rebuild to improve their function and points to the fact that higher grade gear oils (slipery-er EP5) perform worse in our synchro boxes.

GM syncromesh gear fluid is supposedly a good fluid for d16 boxes.
Not that there's anything wrong with Honda, just there's a few reports of good results with it.

There's two versions of the GM syncromesh. You want the non-friction modified.

Pennzoil make the GM synchromesh fluid and market the same thing under their own label. I don't have any more info about this nor local avilability.

Do a search on d-series.com for GM + synchromesh.

2) A more significant issue than the synchros is the gear case shifter fork, which will break if forced too roughly. First gear being the worst gear for this.

3) I agree that heel-toeing and double clutching being perfectly acceptable and a complete stop is not really necessary. On D series boxes with the 0.6 ratio gap between 1st and 2nd, this means quire a few revs.

4) "Yea i was thinking about the EJ8 gearbox anyway, i heard it had better gear ratios?"

1st gear on all D gear boxes is 3.25. 2nd gear can vary, but in the situation of shifting down into 1st, they won't be of any help. It's the huge jump between 3.25 and 1.7-1.9 2nd gear.

IMHO lower closer gear ratios and a lighter flywheel are great for heel-toeing and rev matching but still won't help too much with the 2 to 1 downshift.

Nick.

**1996ek1** · 03-09-2007 11:15 PM

Na i just meant that i was thinking of the EJ8 box, which means i can get rid of my old box with the worn syncros...

and was just saying i want the EJ8 box because of its close ratios....

**B18cEG** · 08-09-2007 10:26 AM

Sorry guys but i think you would all agree that this thread has been going on for long enough, At the end of the day i think you either need another gearbox with the desired ratios that you want which you will probarbly need to replace the syncro's anyway, or just replace the syncros in your existing gearbox, dont forget the gear selectors (sleeves) more than likely need replacing also, this i also as important as replacing the syncros since they get very worn. I did a full replacement of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 syncros and 1/2, 3/4, 5/R selectors, From www.gear-speed.com, costs about $1200-$1400 all up including airmail. Goodluck

**Mr_will** · 08-09-2007 09:50 PM

yeah....but this thread is more about driving style. and i think its good to continue the discussion. im interested to hear how the thread starter is going now.

**1996ek1** · 09-09-2007 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by Mr_will

yeah....but this thread is more about driving style. and i think its good to continue the discussion. im interested to hear how the thread starter is going now.

Ahh good. No more shifting to 1st before stops

And it got me thinking about my downshifts (this thread). Do most of you heel toe, or double clutch down the gears? (im still relatively new to driving, don't know it all)

**Setanta** · 09-09-2007 08:57 AM

Double clutching is entirely unnecessary on the streets. That's why you have synchros. Push the clutch in, pop it in gear and release the clutch is all you have to do.

On the track, heel and toe IS part of effective gear-changing and part of the double-clutch process but TBH, I only double clutch on the track on corners that involve huge rev-matches.

I'd suggest watching the super-taxi (falcodore) series of motorsport, they always do footwell footage of double-clutching (arguably more interesting than the race itself) and you can even see them shift without using the clutch on occasion (entirely doable but not recommended in your daily driver if you want to preserve your gearbox - borrow a friend's car to practice

).

**1996ek1** · 09-09-2007 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Setanta

Double clutching is entirely unnecessary on the streets. That's why you have synchros. Push the clutch in, pop it in gear and release the clutch is all you have to do.

On the track, heel and toe IS part of effective gear-changing and part of the double-clutch process but TBH, I only double clutch on the track on corners that involve huge rev-matches.

I'd suggest watching the super-taxi (falcodore) series of motorsport, they always do footwell footage of double-clutching (arguably more interesting than the race itself) and you can even see them shift without using the clutch on occasion (entirely doable but not recommended in your daily driver if you want to preserve your gearbox - borrow a friend's car to practice

).

hahahahaha thanks mate

**SeverAMV** · 09-09-2007 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Setanta

Double clutching is entirely unnecessary on the streets. That's why you have synchros. Push the clutch in, pop it in gear and release the clutch is all you have to do.

On the track, heel and toe IS part of effective gear-changing and part of the double-clutch process but TBH, I only double clutch on the track on corners that involve huge rev-matches.

I'd suggest watching the super-taxi (falcodore) series of motorsport, they always do footwell footage of double-clutching (arguably more interesting than the race itself) and you can even see them shift without using the clutch on occasion (entirely doable but not recommended in your daily driver if you want to preserve your gearbox - borrow a friend's car to practice

).

uhh, you can shift without using the clutch and doing minimal damage, you just have to match the revs to perfection.
i think the best heel toe footage would be when keiichi tsuchiya clocks in the new record at tsukuba in the nsx. i think he did like 3 smooth-as heel-toes in 0.5 seconds.
on the track, heel toe is better because it minimises the jolt to the drivetrain, which reduces the amount of traction lost and controls the weight shifting more smoothly.

**aaronng** · 09-09-2007 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by 1996ek1

Ahh good. No more shifting to 1st before stops

And it got me thinking about my downshifts (this thread). Do most of you heel toe, or double clutch down the gears? (im still relatively new to driving, don't know it all)

Revmatch when downshifting. You only heel-toe if you need to brake and downshift at the same time just before entering a corner. The only time I double clutch is when I want to get into 1st when moving or when I want to shift from 6th to 2nd straight away for quick acceleration.