[Euro] Hondata Update

[Merlin086]

Just to clarify what I wrote....

"Euro Lux 1450kg -196kw =7.39kg/kw
(with jtune
xtreme if 40%gain)


Euro Lux 1450kg -182kw =7.96kg/kw
(with jtune
xtreme if 30%gain)"

Please note the "if"

It was speculation and not stated as fact.
Suppose I could have quoted 26% gain @peak (edit typo)
......................

"Torque output is primarily based on bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine."

Please stop reading into my statements what I didn't say!

Nowhere did I profess to be quoting accurate dyno figures as it was a theoretical comparison.

Nowhere did I state that factors such as cam angles, component weight etc, don't influence available torque, but it is a fact that the primary reason for torque output is bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine. Don't blame me!

[jooboo]

Just to clarify what I wrote....

It was speculation and not stated as fact.
Suppose I could have quoted 26% gain @6k rpm.
......................

At 6000 rpm there is much more than a 26% gain its a 50% gain.

[sodaz]

Keep in mind that between 6000-7000rpm the stock car makes an additional 20kw on the hub dyno. The Jtune car's power actually drops after 6000rpm.
The stock car has a dip at 6000rpm so it makes the numbers look even more significant (which is why they picked that point for comparison). Essentially what the extreme package does is it moves the peak power back and smooth out the power curve which makes the car more drivable but in terms of peak power gains it's not really that impressive. 177kw at the crank seems about right.

In fact when you do the math’s 105.7kw vs 158.3ks @ 6000rpm is almost a 50% increase in power mid range, now that’s worth talking about !!!!!!!

[Merlin086]

At 6000 rpm there is much more than a 26% gain its a 50% gain.

Oops...corrected.....

Kick my butt pleez, my proof reader was at lunch........

[Merlin086]

Keep in mind that between 6000-7000rpm the stock car makes an additional 20kw on the hub dyno. The Jtune car's power actually drops after 6000rpm.
The stock car has a dip at 6000rpm so it makes the numbers look even more significant (which is why they picked that point for comparison). Essentially what the extreme package does is it moves the peak power back and smooth out the power curve which makes the car more drivable but in terms of peak power gains it's not really that impressive. 177kw at the crank seems about right.

Power curve?....there is no noticeable power curve...believe me....I have done a bit of testing this week!

I dare not speculate any more on the actual output of my car on a different dyno but the driveability is certainly more than 26% better IMHO, probably cause I don't drive around between 6-7000 rpm......

Now that would get some unwanted attention.......

PS going to do a Db test from inside and out too.

[aaronng]

"Torque output is primarily based on bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine."
...

Nowhere did I state that factors such as cam angles, component weight etc, don't influence available torque, but it is a fact that the primary reason for torque output is bore/stroke ratio in a NA engine. Don't blame me!

No, the primary reason for torque output is NOT bore/stroke ratio. That is my argument. The primary reason is capacity, the 2nd reason is how well the engine breathes (both in and out). Bore/stroke is at best the 3rd reason.

Otherwise, why does the F22C with an 87 x 90.7mm bore and stroke (0.959 bore/stroke ratio) make 220Nm? That is almost the same amount of torque as the K24A's 223Nm using an 87 x 99mm bore and stroke (0.879 ratio). By your reasoning, the k24a should make much more torque than the F22C because it is more undersquare (by quite alot). Note, the K24A3 has a capacity of 2354cc while the F22C has 2157cc. Even with an extra 197cc and an even more undersquare design, all it can muster is 3Nm advantage?

Bore/stroke ratio is NOT the primary reason for torque output.

[sodaz]

Power curve?....there is no noticeable power curve...believe me....I have done a bit of testing this week!

I dare not speculate any more on the actual output of my car on a different dyno but the driveability is certainly more than 26% better IMHO, probably cause I don't drive around between 6-7000 rpm......

The power curve I was referring to is the dyno's power curve. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The Jtune's curve is much flatter than the stock car which means there's no sharp drops or gains. The peak power is produced at a lower 6000rpm compared to stock (closer to 7000rpm) so for everyday driving it's better but if you're going all out the difference is not as much.

[yfin]

In fact when you do the math’s 105.7kw vs 158.3ks @ 6000rpm is almost a 50% increase in power mid range, now that’s worth talking about !!!!!!!

Since when is 6000rpm mid range?!

[sodaz]

Since when is 6000rpm mid range?!

LOL that's so true. Mid range is like 3000-4000rpm.

[Merlin086]

The power curve I was referring to is the dyno's power curve. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The Jtune's curve is much flatter than the stock car which means there's no sharp drops or gains. The peak power is produced at a lower 6000rpm compared to stock (closer to 7000rpm) so for everyday driving it's better but if you're going all out the difference is not as much.

Cool man, I wasn't contradicting you.
I was just saying that if you look at the graph, the "curve" is almost non-existent and that is how the car drives.
No noticeable vtec point, just a smoother,even rate of acceleration under power.

[aaronng]

Yes, I was very impressed as to how linear the Jtune extreme was. The bonus to this was when you shifted to the next gear, the car would then pull hard again without hesitation. That is something I haven't felt on other Euros even with other aftermarket I/H/E setups and piggyback tuning, even Toda headers!

[EUR003act]

Yes, I was very impressed as to how linear the Jtune extreme was. The bonus to this was when you shifted to the next gear, the car would then pull hard again without hesitation. That is something I haven't felt on other Euros even with other aftermarket I/H/E setups and piggyback tuning, even Toda headers!

you havent driven my car

lol jokes, my car has nothing below 5000.... and when you shift from 1st to second at 7400rpm, theres way too much hesitation before you feel it "pulling" again...