Opinions - B18CR Bottom End with Alaniz head

[fatboyz39]

I would not call ~140kw high for a B series, I wouldn't even call 150kw high. It's a good figure to achieve, i'm not saying it's easy, but if I wanted to aim for a big B series, I'd be hunting the 200kw figure, as for that matter, I will be chasing that soon on standard sleeves. If it gives, it gives.

You dont mean 200hp? LOL. If you want 200kw build a k and be happy with it.

[ewendc2r]

lol @ TB -- Yes it will, they do, from Jackson Racing with Hondata backing. Its the Hi Boost Kit which is as high as you can go without a rebuild / lower compression / retarding ingition significantly.. Something to do with the Dynamic vs Static Compression? I'll dig up the tech article I found a while back too. It is also encouraged to reduce the rev limiter as there is no longer a need to go that extra 1000rpm, but you can, just extra wear and tear that can be avoided.

I like the fact also that its still a type r, albeit supercharged, it still has its 1.8L origins

[ewendc2r]

In fact with rotrex kits they are achieving up to 13psi on stock internals reliably, again something to do with the nature of compression and the properties / tuning -- admittedly, they are dialling in a little too much retard I think, run the risk of something going bang on the exhaust side with the heat! So yeah -- They aren't bulletproof stock bottom end, but they are capable.

[tinkerbell]

make sure you are not confusing information regarding the lower compression B18C5 engine with the higher compression B18C7 engine

just a thought

[ewendc2r]

good pickup -- Yeah I thought about that, but most of the articles that were worth anything were from UK and I thought they had same compression as us?

Apparently the only thing that happens if you run too much boost is that in order for it not to ping, you have to retard the ignition. The exhaust temps will rise signficnatly creating hot spots / burning valves and worse. Their tuning indicated that 11psi was a safe level of boost but had to be specifically tuned with aftermarket ecu. anything over this and detonation becomes an issue, and yes then rebuild the bottom end. But there have been very little reported problems even with some of these guys running 1 bar (stupidly, very inefficient) through type r motors so they must be fairly tough lumps of metal.. I don't think I'll need more than 9 pounds really, that should get me close to my power goals. 11psi is a bit silly for the street I think, wheel spin everywhere.

Idea would be to get it tuned (and this is the great part I love about it) with a 7psi pulley for daily driving and 11psi for the track. Simpy swap pulleys, adjust cam timing as needed and load the map.. wicked. And all while retaining that great NA feel..

I'm happy to be an oz guinea pig and go down this route .. doesn't seem common and I'm not convinced on why.

[tinkerbell]

so maybe you need to speak to whoever it is who you are going to use for tuning up there in QLD?

they might give you some insightful advice...

(no point getting a set-up only people in another country have experience in tuning - just another thought )

[ewendc2r]

Yeah I've thought about that too.. The guy up here has been tuning for around 6 years and although he hadn't tuned a hondata before he quickly got used to it. The workshop also specialises in supercharged applications mostly for domestic v8's so they understand the traits of roots style blowers (thats mostly what is used there). Further Hondata have a basemap for various boost levels requiring fine tuning to each engine obviously. I have confidence in him after speaking with him and watching him tune the engine..

They are a proven application. My only concern is that I understand the intake manifold and supercharger can get hot quite quickly (not a concern on the street, but on the track, definitely) and power drops right off as efficiency of the blower goes out the window.. Because the blower is mounted on intake side and is a direct blow-through, the only cooler option is really an after-cooler (LHT Performance made one a while back) and then there are modifications for water-air and also water injection if you want to really get into it.. But I'm hoping the charger with some sort of cooling system will provide the goals I am looking with good re-sale on the parts with little overall effect to the car if I decide a different route is required.. and the fact that I've seen several around at the moment for very reasonable prices makes it an attractive option.

As I posted in another thread previously, there is a M90 kit for very good price in the US at the moment, just released. Capable of 450whp, with massive usable power all over the rpm. If I rebuilt the bottom end, something like this could be perfect but would need some sort of staged mechanism / boost controller to bleed boost at lower gears .. I kinda want to try something a little different and potentially provide yet another avenue for people to explore with reasoning behind the choice made.. I guess it all depends on the responses I get back from a few offers I've put out there.

[Slaz]

Some valid points Slaz

I would not call ~140kw high for a B series, I wouldn't even call 150kw high. It's a good figure to achieve, i'm not saying it's easy, but if I wanted to aim for a big B series, I'd be hunting the 200kw figure, as for that matter, I will be chasing that soon on standard sleeves. If it gives, it gives.

You talking at the wheels of Flywheel there Chris? Also a B series can be 1.6-2.3 so it really depends on what size motor were talking here and what application, a big 2.3ish motor might make the power and be good for drags, but struggle with the stresses or the track over a period of time, but as it was a discussion in the 1.8-2ltr area, that was the power figures i was putting out there as the better ones.

200KW ATW on a 84 bore, Phils K made 198 being a 2.4, will be a stout effort if it comes together, 95x84 im assuming? When will this be coming together?

[TODA AU]

the AUDM B18C7 engine wont take 11psi of S/C boost with out ......you guessed it!!!!

rebuilding the bottom end!!!

Actually it will...
Max effort on a stock engine is 220~230kw @ the wheels (12psi)
Need the right parts, but it'll do it.

That's turbo not supercharged

[Chr1s]

You talking at the wheels of Flywheel there Chris? Also a B series can be 1.6-2.3 so it really depends on what size motor were talking here and what application, a big 2.3ish motor might make the power and be good for drags, but struggle with the stresses or the track over a period of time, but as it was a discussion in the 1.8-2ltr area, that was the power figures i was putting out there as the better ones.

200KW ATW on a 84 bore, Phils K made 198 being a 2.4, will be a stout effort if it comes together, 95x84 im assuming? When will this be coming together?

Wheels Slaz, I'm hunting around the 2.1 area. I'm still doing some calculations to see where I can realistically make some decent gains. I'd still like to retain the standard stroke. It's going to be one highly strung mofo.

[tinkerbell]

Actually it will...
Max effort on a stock engine is 220~230kw @ the wheels (12psi)
Need the right parts, but it'll do it.

That's turbo not supercharged

i didnt say turbo charged, i specifically said "11psi of S/C boost"

turbo has more control (thermodynamic) than a S/C... and hence can take more boost - i think the ease of inter-cooling a T/C has something to do with this?

if the OP was not trying to be different and unique, then the most obvious option is a turbocharger, isn't it?

[tinkerbell]

Wheels Slaz, I'm hunting around the 2.1 area. I'm still doing some calculations to see where I can realistically make some decent gains. I'd still like to retain the standard stroke. It's going to be one highly strung mofo.

std stroke with 2.1l? that is a 86.5mm bore... how you going to get that on a std sleeves?