CU2 Audio upgrade desperately needed for Accord Euro CU2 Luxury

[Simonnn]

I think the car you have is a CU2 euro, not a CL9. maybe clarify that first so people can better help you out!

[WarrenM]

I think the car you have is a CU2 euro, not a CL9. maybe clarify that first so people can better help you out!

Correct! CU2. Sorry for the confusion - I'll correct the original message

[JustRight]

Hi there WarrenM,

You might find these threads of mine from last year of interest:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...peaker-upgrade

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...cessor-upgrade

This may be overkill for what you are wanting to spend, but if you are looking for a system to play largely Classical or Orchestral music styles then the standard Panasonic based system in the Accord CU2 leaves a LOT to be desired. I personally found the standard system to be far too bright and harsh and completely lacked warmth and decent bass. The equalisation is just all wrong, at least to my ears, and the factory all plastic speakers are just rubbish. In fact many users, including many here on OzHonda have had the standard speakers fail, many times!

My system is now based on all Focal speakers and 4 channel amplifier, with a Rockford Fosgate DSP to 'fix' the dreadful EQ of the standard system. I did not want to go the the extent of changing the factory Head Unit, and there are little to no options in that area anyway. It's a big job, but the result is well worth it if you love your music.

Cheers, and good luck.

[WarrenM]

Hi there WarrenM,

You might find these threads of mine from last year of interest:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...peaker-upgrade

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...cessor-upgrade

This may be overkill for what you are wanting to spend, but if you are looking for a system to play largely Classical or Orchestral music styles then the standard Panasonic based system in the Accord CU2 leaves a LOT to be desired. I personally found the standard system to be far too bright and harsh and completely lacked warmth and decent bass. The equalisation is just all wrong, at least to my ears, and the factory all plastic speakers are just rubbish. In fact many users, including many here on OzHonda have had the standard speakers fail, many times!

My system is now based on all Focal speakers and 4 channel amplifier, with a Rockford Fosgate DSP to 'fix' the dreadful EQ of the standard system. I did not want to go the the extent of changing the factory Head Unit, and there are little to no options in that area anyway. It's a big job, but the result is well worth it if you love your music.

Cheers, and good luck.

Thanks for that. Very helpful! The connection diagram is terrific!

I don't have your budget but I have decided to do it properly, at least to some extent.

Here is my initial plan:

I've bought a pair of superseded Hertz HSK 165 splits for the front, for $110 delivered (really) and unless I have a sudden change of heart I'm getting a pair of Infinity 652i coax speakers for the rear doors, at, I hope, $77 delivered and leaving the rear, although the more I think about it the more sense it makes to use 2 sets of superseded HSK 165s since they are so ridiculously cheap and a pair of the Infinity 6.5" coax speakers in the rear shelf. What do you think?

Given that I do not have anything like the money for a DSP and a $500+ amp, what are my options for amplification and for taming the treble and upper midrange? I have no idea what different car amps are like. You might laugh, cringe or throw up your hands in despair, but I saw something on eBay which may be worth a look (or may be worth avoiding at every turn). A Chinese "pseudo brand" of PowerVox is being sold on eBay by a few importers. As shonky as the ads are (they talk in music power or some other meaningless measurement) the specs are actually OK if not particularly spectacular: 140W RMS per channel (4 channels driven, probably at 10% THD) but even if this translates to 35W RMS at a reasonable distortion reading, it would drive my speakers at the volumes I listen. This sells for $86 delivered from one supplier, $155 from another. Is there any point in trying an amp like this or am I just throwing away money?

There are also 2nd hand name-brand amps on eBay which look OK.

When you finally replaced your sub, where/how did you mount the new one? Having already modified your environment substantially, was the sub a massive improvement or just a modest one?

BTW, in my plans, I will be sound-deadening the front doors (at least).

Cheers, Warren

[JustRight]

Thanks for that. Very helpful! The connection diagram is terrific!

I don't have your budget but I have decided to do it properly, at least to some extent.

Here is my initial plan:

I've bought a pair of superseded Hertz HSK 165 splits for the front, for $110 delivered (really) and unless I have a sudden change of heart I'm getting a pair of Infinity 652i coax speakers for the rear doors, at, I hope, $77 delivered and leaving the rear, although the more I think about it the more sense it makes to use 2 sets of superseded HSK 165s since they are so ridiculously cheap and a pair of the Infinity 6.5" coax speakers in the rear shelf. What do you think?

Given that I do not have anything like the money for a DSP and a $500+ amp, what are my options for amplification and for taming the treble and upper midrange? I have no idea what different car amps are like. You might laugh, cringe or throw up your hands in despair, but I saw something on eBay which may be worth a look (or may be worth avoiding at every turn). A Chinese "pseudo brand" of PowerVox is being sold on eBay by a few importers. As shonky as the ads are (they talk in music power or some other meaningless measurement) the specs are actually OK if not particularly spectacular: 140W RMS per channel (4 channels driven, probably at 10% THD) but even if this translates to 35W RMS at a reasonable distortion reading, it would drive my speakers at the volumes I listen. This sells for $86 delivered from one supplier, $155 from another. Is there any point in trying an amp like this or am I just throwing away money?

There are also 2nd hand name-brand amps on eBay which look OK.

When you finally replaced your sub, where/how did you mount the new one? Having already modified your environment substantially, was the sub a massive improvement or just a modest one?

BTW, in my plans, I will be sound-deadening the front doors (at least).

Cheers, Warren

Hi Warren,

I'm afraid I have never had any faith in the Audio hardware for sale on e-bay. Some of it might be genuine, particularly second hand items. New stuff however, even brand name, are more often than not fakes and copies that can be of very poor quality.

I understand however that with a tight budget these e-bay items seem very attractive. For the amplifier though, I would suggest that you at least have a look at what Jaycar are offering for a 4 channel amp. You may find that their prices are comparable, and you get local support as well. Adequately driving the speakers is the secret to a great sounding system, so try to get an amp that can deliver at least the 'nominal' rating for your speakers.

Controlling the awful equalisation in the CU2 though is a much bigger problem. With some component splits it is possible to attenuate the output to the tweeters via a switch on the crossover. If that is not possible then you can get an attenuator that can help reduce the tweeters output. Once again Jaycar should be able to help with this. To see what the equalisation curve on the standard system is like have a look at the images of my PDA running the Rockford Fosgate software in this link: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...cessor-upgrade The red line shows the standard EQ. You can see that is adds 3 to 5db between about 1k to 3kHz, then drops back to flat until about 5kHz where it takes off again with greater than +10db from about 10kHz and upwards!! No wonder it sounds so harsh.

I ran the system in my car for a while with just the Focal speakers and the tweeters set to their maximum attenuation, and still I found the sound way too bright and harsh. All you can do is suck it and see. I decided to incorporate the DSP because I simply could not get the system to sound warm enough for my liking. Subsequently I also added a separate sub-woofer which certainly resolved any lack of bass.

The new sub is a powered enclosure from Focal called a BombA 27V1. This pre-built system comes with its own amp so I was able to drive all my component splits from the Focal 4 channel, and the sub looks after itself. I mounted it using special tie-down straps directly behind the rear seats. It still leaves plenty of space in the rest of the boot.

The performance improvement was massive! Way better bottom end. I was able to stop trying to over drive the components with bass, trying to get them to fill in the lower frequencies. If you can stretch to a subwoofer I would certainly recommend it. The factory sub is damn near useless, and once you fit new spilts etc you probably won't be able to hear it anyway.

Hope this helps,
Cheers.

[WarrenM]

Hi Warren,

I'm afraid I have never had any faith in the Audio hardware for sale on e-bay. Some of it might be genuine, particularly second hand items. New stuff however, even brand name, are more often than not fakes and copies that can be of very poor quality.

You are not the first person to say this to me. Hertz HSK 165s are apparently among the most common Chinese knock-offs around. I had a quick chat with the dealer who sold me these. They are indeed genuine, with Hertz-confirmed serial numbers. The current model has higher power handling as a result of a slightly different crossover, so old stock is being sold out by a couple of firms. Apart from checking serial numbers it is pretty difficult to tell the real ones from the knock-offs.

I understand however that with a tight budget these e-bay items seem very attractive. For the amplifier though, I would suggest that you at least have a look at what Jaycar are offering for a 4 channel amp. You may find that their prices are comparable, and you get local support as well. Adequately driving the speakers is the secret to a great sounding system, so try to get an amp that can deliver at least the 'nominal' rating for your speakers.

Controlling the awful equalisation in the CU2 though is a much bigger problem. With some component splits it is possible to attenuate the output to the tweeters via a switch on the crossover. If that is not possible then you can get an attenuator that can help reduce the tweeters output. Once again Jaycar should be able to help with this.

The HSK 165s have a +2/-2 adjustment on the tweeter. Sounds like that is nowhere near enough.

To see what the equalisation curve on the standard system is like have a look at the images of my PDA running the Rockford Fosgate software in this link: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...cessor-upgrade The red line shows the standard EQ. You can see that is adds 3 to 5db between about 1k to 3kHz, then drops back to flat until about 5kHz where it takes off again with greater than +10db from about 10kHz and upwards!! No wonder it sounds so harsh.

It is hard to believe they have done such a crappy job!

I ran the system in my car for a while with just the Focal speakers and the tweeters set to their maximum attenuation, and still I found the sound way too bright and harsh. All you can do is suck it and see. I decided to incorporate the DSP because I simply could not get the system to sound warm enough for my liking.

I wonder whether there is such a thing as a poor man's DSP out there?

Subsequently I also added a separate sub-woofer which certainly resolved any lack of bass. The new sub is a powered enclosure from Focal called a BombA 27V1. This pre-built system comes with its own amp so I was able to drive all my component splits from the Focal 4 channel, and the sub looks after itself. I mounted it using special tie-down straps directly behind the rear seats. It still leaves plenty of space in the rest of the boot.

The performance improvement was massive! Way better bottom end. I was able to stop trying to over drive the components with bass, trying to get them to fill in the lower frequencies. If you can stretch to a subwoofer I would certainly recommend it. The factory sub is damn near useless, and once you fit new spilts etc you probably won't be able to hear it anyway.

Hope this helps,
Cheers.

I have space considerations as we will take our car touring, with a lot of luggage. I'm surprised there are not more high quality 8" subs out there. In spite of the obvious limitations mounting the sub in the same place as the existing one (i.e. open in the rear), I'd be very happy to find an 8" long-throw sub and drive it with a gutsy 2nd-hand amp.

I've taken a note out of your book and just bought a PAC SOEM-4 Line Output Converter on US eBay.

Thanks, Warren

[WarrenM]

I wonder whether there is such a thing as a poor man's DSP out there?

There may be! I'm probably going to get the JL Audio DSP which I can get from the US for a little under $300 delivered - looks pretty good. There is a SoundStream DSP which is much cheaper but weighs more so costs a lot more to ship, and anyway looks like it is much less effective than the JL Audio.

I think I'm going to end up with a Kenwood 8" sub as a direct replacement for the existing free-air sub, but maybe there are some more musical subs out there that I don't know about. I have not found another sub so far that works well in a free air environment, and I really don't want to go the path of an enclosure at this stage. I plan to line the boot with mass loaded vinyl to cut out road surface noise and improve the efficiency of the sub.

Cheers, Warren

[WarrenM]

Hi there WarrenM,

You might find these threads of mine from last year of interest:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...peaker-upgrade

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...cessor-upgrade

This may be overkill for what you are wanting to spend, but if you are looking for a system to play largely Classical or Orchestral music styles then the standard Panasonic based system in the Accord CU2 leaves a LOT to be desired. I personally found the standard system to be far too bright and harsh and completely lacked warmth and decent bass. The equalisation is just all wrong, at least to my ears, and the factory all plastic speakers are just rubbish. In fact many users, including many here on OzHonda have had the standard speakers fail, many times!

My system is now based on all Focal speakers and 4 channel amplifier, with a Rockford Fosgate DSP to 'fix' the dreadful EQ of the standard system. I did not want to go the the extent of changing the factory Head Unit, and there are little to no options in that area anyway. It's a big job, but the result is well worth it if you love your music.

Cheers, and good luck.

Hi JustRight.

Thanks for all your input. I've gone from thinking I can get by with under $1000 of hi-fi upgrade, to already having paid more than that in seriously discounted hardware before I've even started, and I still have 3 speakers a sub and an amp to go, plus sound deadening, cables, etc. Not to mention the services of a professional installer, since I can guarantee that I will destroy the car if I try to do the installation.

Now that I have gone into way-over-the-top mode, may I pick your brains for some of the details of your installation:

Have you needed to upgrade your power connections from the battery? Did you need to drill through the firewall to allow larger cables through? Were the holes in the doors sufficient to get cables into them, or were the cables already of high enough quality and calibre for your focal speakers?

How deep does your sub go? How deep do the focal splits go? Where did you set the cross-over between them - did you just allow the focal splits to naturally bottom out and let the sub take over, or did you fade out the splits somewhere above their lower limit?

Finally, have you needed to beef up your battery? With the massive amp I already have for my sub and the additional amp I'm about to get for my splits, plus the amp built into the JBL MS-8 DSP, I suspect that I'll be pushing the limits of a standard battery.

Cheers, Warren

[JustRight]

Howdy Warren,

It's alarming how the costs build up isn't it. I found exactly the same thing, when after spending what I thought was my budget on the Focal 165VR's and amplifier, to then realise I needed a DSP and a decent sub-woofer.

Anyway, it all worked out well. So, on to your questions:

Have you needed to upgrade your power connections from the battery? Did you need to drill through the firewall to allow larger cables through? Were the holes in the doors sufficient to get cables into them, or were the cables already of high enough quality and calibre for your focal speakers?

Yes I did indeed upgrade the power lines from the battery. I ran an additional 4AWG power cable from the + terminal to the input side of the standard fuse box. I clamped and soldered the additional cable to the factory connections. I then ran a 4AWG cable from the distrubution side of the fuse box, next to where the input from the battery comes in, to a large amperage circuit breaker which I mounter on the upper firewall on the passenger side. The 4AWG cable then crosses to the drivers side along the firewall and enters the car through the large rubber wiring loom seal just under the brake booster.

This is the only reasonably accessible place to pass the power cable through the firewall. From under the drivers dash you can get good access to the rear of the rubber wiring seal. I simply cut a small hole in the rubber and pushed the cable through. A quick squirt with some Silicone lubricant and I was able to pull the cable through the hole easily.

I then ran the cable along the drivers side of the car under the door sill trims. There is plenty of room under there. I also used black flexible plastic conduit for the entire length of the power cable right into the boot. The cable then makes its way up under the rear seat and up the drivers side of the boot to the parcel shelf where I have mounted the Focal Solid4 ampilifier.

The earth cable is also a 4AWG cable that goes from the amp, across the back of the boot to the passenger side where it is bolted to the cars frame. At the battery end I also replaced the short battery to body earth strap with one I made up also of 4AWG cable. I believe that the standard earth strap is only 8AWG, and so we need to also beef up the current return point as well.

When I eventually added the Focal powered sub-woofer I simply added a 'T' piece connecter to the 4AWG cables in the boot for both the power and earth and then connected them via an Anderson plug to the sub. The Anderson plug allows the sub to be easily and safely removed whilst being able to tolerate the kind of amperages that these amplifiers can require.

As for the speaker cables themselves, I simply used the original factory wiring. It is entirely adequate for the amount of power we are driving to the component speakers. I have had no issues with that at all.

How deep does your sub go? How deep do the focal splits go? Where did you set the cross-over between them - did you just allow the focal splits to naturally bottom out and let the sub take over, or did you fade out the splits somewhere above their lower limit?

I set the DSP to run the sub from 20 to 100Hz with a 24db/Octave slope. I effectively allow the 165VR's to run down to their rated bottom end. The 165VR's are rated to 70Hz so I have set the DSP to roll them off from 80Hz, also with a 24db slope. This seems to work pretty well, and I have not found myself wanting to 'fiddle' with it for some time. Initially I had set the 165VR's to roll off a lot higer, but I found that that seemed to leave a 'hole' in the sound around that area, so by running them down a bit lower the car seems to fill nicely with that mid-bass with the sub filling in the very bottom end.

Finally, have you needed to beef up your battery? With the massive amp I already have for my sub and the additional amp I'm about to get for my splits, plus the amp built into the JBL MS-8 DSP, I suspect that I'll be pushing the limits of a standard battery.

So, I see that a DSP has appeared in the mix. Have you been able to get the MS8 at a good price?
Anyway, no, I did not do anything about my battery, although I don't think I am drawing anywhere near the power that you might with the Schnieder Mono Block etc. However, I do take a few precautions, for example, I never play the stereo without the engine running.

All in all this worked out very well. I have had no real issues with alternator whine or ground loops etc. Although I do get a very slight hiss when the system is powered on but there is no signal. It's very minor and inaudible once any music is playing or the car is in motion.

Hope this little essay helps. You can use some of the pictures on my original threads to see just where I mounted the crossovers in the doors etc, etc.

All the best,
Trevor

[WarrenM]

Howdy Warren,

It's alarming how the costs build up isn't it. I found exactly the same thing, when after spending what I thought was my budget on the Focal 165VR's and amplifier, to then realise I needed a DSP and a decent sub-woofer.

Anyway, it all worked out well. So, on to your questions:

Here's another one Trevor:

Do you know the size of the centre speaker - is it 4" or 3.5" (or something else)?

Regards,
Warren

[JustRight]

Here's another one Trevor:

Do you know the size of the centre speaker - is it 4" or 3.5" (or something else)?

Regards,
Warren

Hmmm, not sure. I think it is a 4" single cone. I did not replace mine because the performance and staging of the Focal 165VR's was so good. I would recommend that you also wait until you have heard your system. When using a DSP that supports time differences like the Rockford 360.2 or the JBL MS8 I think that the role of a centre speaker is somewhat diminished.

Also, in my case I did not have enough amplification channels to be able to drive a centre speaker, and so I simply left it connected to the factory amplifier. It plays but is effectively inaudible due to the much greater SPL of the Focal system.

As for musical subwoofers (I admit being biased here) you should at least consider either the Focal 27V2 (11") or the 33V2 (13"). Here is a quote from the Focal web site

27V2 - "This is the thinking man's subwoofer. Not for bassheads, this is for people who appreciate music reproduced accurately."

33V2 - "This is the thinking man's subwoofer. Not for bassheads, this is for people who appreciate music reproduced accurately. The 33V2 13-inch subwoofer plays lower and louder than the 11-inch 27V2. This is a good match for larger front speakers, 6.5" and above. Set your crossover at 80 to 90 Hz for a seamless transition from sub to mid."

Check them out here:
http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/subwoofers.html
http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/pdf...glass_27V2.pdf
http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/pdf...glass_33V2.pdf

Cheers,
Trevor

[Fredoops]

Correct! CU2. Sorry for the confusion - I'll correct the original message

put a [CU2] in front of the thread title will clear it up.