What engine should I go for?

[spetz]

Muzz... hopefully people don't think I'm a wanker but my parents paid for all the mods and bought me the car brand new too when I got my P's
However the reason why I'm doing more mods to it now is that I got a job while not at uni (holidays) so now I have quite a lot more cash to spend on it. Which is also where another problem arises. I don't want to set out on a $10,000 mission, only to find out that I'm not able to save this much up by the time uni starts again. Then I'd be stuck

xtercii, I noticed that Honda's have way way way worse wheel hop? My lancer doesn't really wheel hop that much actually. Though what I did notice is my traction seems to be fairly poor. Unsure why. I thought maybe engine rotation?? Regardless I just overhauled everything in the suspension so shouldn't wheel hop too much. Just hoping I can take off from a standstill

4G63 is definately one hell of a motor but that means a whole new engine conversion, and Evo front cuts are very expensive

[nigs]

Four Gee Nine Free!!

[qstoria]

so spetz are u closer to making a decision on your plans now?

[Muzz]

id say do it in stages, starting with the head. Do PnP, cams, valves and springs, cam gears, valve grind, ecu+tuning, intake and throttle body.

This alone will set u back around $5000+ in parts and labour! at least this way u do not need to remove the block from ur car yet, and ur not f^%ked, if u cant afford to complete doing all the work at once.

4G63 is definately one hell of a motor but that means a whole new engine conversion, and Evo front cuts are very expensive

Belive me the path ur going allong will end up being so much more expensive than a 4g63 conversion. You really need to sit down and plan out EXACTLY what parts ull need, and what labour ur gunna need done.

The 4g63, ull need the fromt cut - lets say $8000 (i got no idea), labour to remove ur current engine, labour to do conversion, get it engineered, say $4000 thats it. No tuning cus ud use the stock ecu. lets guess $12000 all up (again no idea)

working ur current engine - say choice 2 (these price estimates are completly rough, iv only got a slight idea, im not an engine person at this stage, only interested chassis/suspension)

Remove current engine & dissasembe engine - $500
high comp pistons - $1200
rods - $600
bolts - $200
cryo treat crank - $200
Port heads - $1000 porting is dam expensive
cams - $1000 minimum
valve springs $500
ecu $1200-$1900
tuning $500
dc5r box - $1500 (really bad idea, get a gear set made for you box)
engineering for box + labor to mount box -$1500
custom axels $700 - $900
6 pack throttle body $3000-$6000+ very very expensive
Labor to reassemble - $400
Labour to reinstall engine - $300
cat back exhaust- $1000
headers - $650
intake - $300
oir cooler - $400
clutch - $600
water & oil pumps if needed etc.
injectors - $400?
timing belt - $?

your looking at $16,000-$20000+ dollars, and im sure theres plenty of things that needs to be added to the list. this is somthing u dont rush into. make a list of exactly what parts your going to need, and the cost+shipping, right down to the nitty gritty like bearings bolts etc etc. Then exactly what labour processes are going to need to be undertaken to go from having ur engine in ur bay, to having this built engine tuned and ready to run, then go the the place ur getting this done, and get them to look. This is where u need to stop and Plan, spend a good few months planning, exactly what you want from this set up, exactly what iys gunna be used for, i cant stress this enough.

Im not picking on you or anything man, its just that id hate to see u rush into this without any idea of the costs and problems ur gunna run into, time its gunna take to do etc, and with no plan on what u actually want from ur car. Will this be a street car?, drag car? are you using it for circuit? how streetable will this engine be? how long will an engine like thiss last, before the next rebuild. These are the sorts of things u need to be asking. Create an account with honda-tech and spend lots of time in the all motor section. What if u spend 20gs and dont get what u were hoping for. is it worth all the money when u could just go turbo and get way more power in the long run? Would u be better off selling ur car and using this $16000-20000 for your engine, to buy that evo u wanted? how long do u plan to keep the car etc. what happens if ur engine blows? what will you do? thnik about the reliability issues with stock 4g63 vs fully built motor. call up insurance companys and see what is gunna cost for a person ur age to have all these mods on your car. Please have a think to yourself about these things spetz buddy.

[Muzz]

ayways if u really wanna go this route, consider just completly working the head these holidays, and getiing an ecu to tune ur changes. Dont even touch the block yet. Maby look around for a short ratio gear set for ur gear box.

[qstoria]

yeah good post muzz. u make some good honest points. reliability is the key indeed.

sell the car, save ur money. buy an evo. mid 20's will get u a stock evo 4. nice car and a reliable platform to build from. better resale than a lancer with the FTO motor etc as well, less hassle now, car that actually drives...

convinced yet?

[xtercii]

But that defeats the whole purpose of modifying a car, doing a conversion, enjoying the process, becoming unique. And who gives a shit about resale value and saving money when you are playing with your passion.

You don’t get your money back when you buy a phone, or any electrical appliances, when you spend thousands of dollars on a trip, you waste all the money, and you can’t get a single cent back. At least done up cars you can get some money back.

[fishman]

thats right, you shouldn't be modifying cars if your thinking about re-sell value. If you have to justifly every mod your car you also shouldn't be doing it. You should be doing it if you enjoy it. pretty plain and simple.

As many have said - "you have to pay to play".

[Muzz]

But that defeats the whole purpose of modifying a car, doing a conversion, enjoying the process, becoming unique. And who gives a shit about resale value and saving money when you are playing with your passion.

You don’t get your money back when you buy a phone, or any electrical appliances, when you spend thousands of dollars on a trip, you waste all the money, and you can’t get a single cent back. At least done up cars you can get some money back.

i totally agree.

i hope u dont think i was advising him to sell his car for an evo, a stock evo is hardly anything special. The point to my post was so he understands now what the cost will likly be to follow his plans. Better now then after hes spent $10000 and is nowhere near having done what he is planning to do. Nor was i advising him not to go down the highly strung NA route, id luv to see the results when he has finished.

I just want him to think about his plans and goals, and understand whats involved (reliability/insurance/drivability issues etc.), so he can be sure of himself, and the choice he makes. It would be a pity to see him spend 10k only to realise then, that going with the 4g63 would of been a better choice to get what he is looking for in his car. Its easy to rush into things, not so easy to go back. It would also be a pity to see him pull his engine and strip it down, only then to realise that his 10k wont cover his plans and have to put it all back together, without completing much of what was planned.

[Muzz]

So I have 3 engine choices. It's for a 2001 Coupe Lancer running 6A12 MIVEC

Choice 1 (this is what the initial plan was and everything has been done but engine isn't assembled yet)
Fully rebuilt, balanced, ported heads, raised CR, extractors, cat, exhaust, ported intake, 5mm oversize TB, piggyback ECU, cam gears
Stock cams
Mated to a DC5R gearbox
Also, a hell of a lot of other cash to spend elsewhere such as stereo, retrim and respray (suspension, brakes, bodykit, wheels, Recaros etc have been done)
Choice 2
Use this engine but use 12.5:1 CR forged CP Pistons, Argo econo rods with ARP2000 bolts, cryo crank, valve springs, port heads more, port heads more, have some cams with peak power around 9500rpm, valve springs, Haltech standalone ECU, twin TB setup or 6 pack TB setup, and other mods as per Choice 1 including DC5R box

may i suggest a new option #5- leave the block
Cams
Springs valves and retainers
Valve grind
Port n polish
cam gears
Ecu + tuning
injectors, if there needed
And finally, instead of going with the cryo'd crank, forged pistons, and rods (which is overkill if your staying NA), Up the compression ratio by milling the head or block (not sure which) or using a thiner head gasket. (i dont know all that much about engines, so if anyone there knows of any cons to upping the CP in any of these ways, please speek up. Also gotta make shur the pistons wont come in contact with the valves).

Doing this will save u a shit load of money!
save $$ in labor of removing and replacing the block from the car, save dollars ripping apart block, installing parts & rebuilding block, save $$ in buying forged pistons, rods and treating the crank, big time!

with all this done, u can just upgrage ur externals later on, intake, exhaust, throttle bodys gearbox etc.

[qstoria]

i just want him to get a car up and running

[Muzz]

i just want him to get a car up and running

yeah thats the main priority hey, but even the best builds have lots of downtime